Cork Flood Defences

[SoundMan]

I think the proposed extension of the quay walls to 4 feet might be necessary if some other clown is put in charge of the button on the dam. Generally though, the water outflow from the dam can be managed bearing in mind the modelled rainfall, hightides, and easterly winds, to such an extent that in most cases the current height is sufficient.

I don't think wetlands in and around the Lee Fields is the answer as I don't think it would be effective enough - but neither do I think relatively high quay walls would be, as that would only give the ESB carte blanche to leave more water down when they feel like it. It's not beyond the wit of modern engineering to regulate the water levels behind the dam so that there's a flow through the city below the current wall levels - though in some cases there would need to be walls replacing railings - funny thing about water is it tends not to be constrained by railings.

And by the way the ESB weren't found to be just 70%? culpable of causing the flood - they were found 70% culpable for the damage the flood caused to UCC property. UCC was culpable because they built in known flood plains (I mean anyone from Cork over the age of 20 knew the dog track floods) and their bizarre idea to house expensive equipment and artefacts in basements. Duh!

 

[geansaideas]

Surely you will have time to make your formal submission / protest before 17 / 02 and then let the experts decide as to the validity of your submissions?

Have you seen the amount of technical drawings and documentation that form the OPW proposal? Sure, we will have time to make a submission, but in order to make it meaningful, well informed and propose feasible alternatives we need more time (as I imagine everyone else does).

Also, many people are only finding out about the scheme right now, or won't find out until after the deadline has passed.

The OPW / local & national politicians have never stopped going on about this scheme since 2011

Even so, if everybody was aware of the plan to develop flood defences in principle, the scheme as proposed was only released to the public in December (at the busiest time in everyone's calendar).

Do you agree that we need concrete and steel here as the solution rather than "wetlands" "forests" and predictive models?

I think we'll need both. I'm not an expert in flood relief, but having spoken to people who are it seems that we should be looking at an integrated system of measures. Yes, these could involve constructed wetlands, added planting upstream etc. (these have been proven to reduce flood levels in other countries).

From speaking to the engineers at the public exhibition (from Arups/OPW/City Council) however, the threat of flooding is now mainly from the sea, as they have improved coordination with the dam to avoid a catastrophe like 2009 again. In that case, to me the most sensible solution seems to be a tidal barrage downstream that could also be used as a crossing to alleviate the already stressed tunnel.

If we do need to raise walls along the quays to protect buildings from floods, there are better ways of doing it than the way the OPW have proposed. For instance they could be set back from the edge to allow for a walkway along the river.

By 'predictive models' do you mean a Flood Early Warning System?

 

[Stacky]

I am glad that there are tons of technical drawings which means that a lot of time and thought has been applied to stopping the city centre flooding.

I would be more worried if there were only a handful of documents.

A tidal barage / barrier across the mouth of the harbour would cost billions and is not being proposed.

The political fallout and damage from citizens and businesses if there was to be a major flood is the concern and a very modest proposal really is what is being proposed which can be tweaked if required in sensitive areas.

 

[geansaideas]

I am glad that there are tons of technical drawings which means that a lot of time and thought has been applied to stopping the city centre flooding.

I would be more worried if there were only a handful of documents.

You're dead right and I agree with you. The amount of information presented doesn't worry me at all, simply the time available to process it and the way that it has been presented. If you missed the exhibition (which is now closed), the only way for you to see the proposal is online at www.lowerleefrs.ie and download 30 massive pdf files. If you've managed to get that far, you still need to be able to read technical drawings (many people aren't) to understand properly what's being done.

A tidal barage / barrier across the mouth of the harbour would cost billions and is not being proposed.

A tidal barrage for Cork has been proposed at a number of occasions in the past. It was considered as an alternative to the tunnel (and I believe was supposed to have been a cheaper option) but would have interfered too much with ships using the port. This is no longer as much of a concern as shipping has almost entirely moved further out into the harbour. As to the cost, respectfully, a barrage would not cost billions (unless maybe if it was located at Roche's Point). The OPW themselves have claimed that it would cost 400m euro, which arguably is higher than what it would cost based on where you locate the barrier. In any case, a tidal barrier would involve far less disruption to the city centre (businesses, residents, traffic and tourism) thereby avoiding losses to the local economy.

 

[Stacky]

You're dead right and I agree with you. The amount of information presented doesn't worry me at all, simply the time available to process it and the way that it has been presented. If you missed the exhibition (which is now closed), the only way for you to see the proposal is online at www.lowerleefrs.ie and download 30 massive pdf files. If you've managed to get that far, you still need to be able to read technical drawings (many people aren't) to understand properly what's being done.


A tidal barrage for Cork has been proposed at a number of occasions in the past. It was considered as an alternative to the tunnel (and I believe was supposed to have been a cheaper option) but would have interfered too much with ships using the port. This is no longer as much of a concern as shipping has almost entirely moved further out into the harbour. As to the cost, respectfully, a barrage would not cost billions (unless maybe if it was located at Roche's Point). The OPW themselves have claimed that it would cost 400m euro, which arguably is higher than what it would cost based on where you locate the barrier. In any case, a tidal barrier would involve far less disruption to the city centre (businesses, residents, traffic and tourism) thereby avoiding losses to the local economy.

A tidal barrier is not being proposed though.

The new childrens hospital has gone up from €650 million to €1 billion.

The Event Centre in Cork has gone from €52 million to €60 million +.

The environmental impact study for a river barrier barage would take years and Cork would be under 300mm of water by the time the billions would be found for it never mind the time tp build it.

The cost of any state project is an open cheque book for the contractor as there is no agreed barrier proposal designed, planned or more importantly costed via a tender.

 

[Tictac]

Predictive models do not predict that which is unpredictable.

 

[Tictac]

What we need is

Piledrivers
Cotter dams
Dredging
That weird shit smell
Breakfast rolls
Milky tea
Consaws
Cement trucks
Hammering
Non distinctive banging
More cement trucks
Manitous
Barges
Ginger nut biscuits
Yorkie bars
Weekend traffic chaos
Two way systems on formerly one way roads
One way roads on what were two way roads
Portacabins stacked up on each other
Mild sexual harassment shouting at women
Copies of the sun newspaper
Grafitti on wooden hoardings
Blinding floodlights
Complaining to neil and peejay
The echo ignoring it
Builders trucks reversing with beep beep beep beep
Road rage
Taxi drivers smoking out their windows thinking that they wont stink up their cars
K******s robbing tools
Men with names like don , eammon, con and christy

This is what we need to fix the flooding problem in cork

 

[poulgorm]

Where are all these suggested wetlands going to be located? The area by the Straight Road is already a wetland. The next area upstream is Ballincollig. Demolish Ballincollig and turn the area into wetlands?

This wetlands thing is very well thought through.

 

[mrbojangles]

Where are all these suggested wetlands going to be located? .

Upstream from the dam.

 

[mrbojangles]

Raising all the walls around the river just seems doomed to failure. There will always be a weak spot and there will always be a storm/tide/wind set-up to find it. Why do so many people have such blind faith in the experts that came up with this plan and why such opposition to even questioning it?
After decades of managing the dam one might think that the experts in ESB would be able to guage the impact of water release on the city. The 2009 case proved they were not.