Sinn Fein are not a Normal Political Party

Fwiw

But you'd accept if a BP happens that way then so be it.
I agree the infinitely preferable way to do this is to plan, discuss and agree. But it's not a prerequisite and if unionism refuses to engage citing "why would we get involved in that?" and when discussions continue without them then say "is this what it would be like" and "cold house for unionists" ....then that can't stop an eventual BP being held.

As I often posted pretty much everything is in the table for me personally bar rejoining the Commonwealth. Think the South African model with new flag, anthem, new nat. languages, new nat. holidays, guaranteed citizenship rights in perpetuity etc etc.

Why wouldn't rejoining the Commonwealth be on the table? It would have to be voted for naturally but I'd have no issue at all with a United Ireland voting one way or another on rejoining the Commonwealth, unsurprisingly I'd be voting against it, if that's what the majority of Irish citizens across the 32 counties want then we should go for it.
 
I'm not sure you could draw that conclusion from the poll as there were 4 options, the 18% who are undecided might favour the status quo or favour a UI once that option is taken off the table. I would think given the breakdown of the yes v no a 50/50 split would be most optimistic outcome.

Also there are technically 3 options, i.e the 5% who said they would not vote, means if all undecided voted for a UI we are still left with a 50 v 45 split against.

I think the best way to do it tbh is not have a poll until there is a majority in favour of a UI, if it were to fail what time period are we looking at for another one, will the Brits be as amenable to another one, look at the Scottish situation.

Pretty sure there's a review every 7 years written into the GFA. Unlike the Act Of Union which the Scots are trapped in for the foreseeable.
 
IRA/SF might consider a few explosions to get the unionists into talks about unity.
Bertie Ahern will then come into the frame and propose some comprise such as money to every unionist who will agree to unity.

Only people considering a few explosions are your unionist/loyalist pals DUPher.

Didn't one of the Unionist politicians, might have been Molinyeux (sp?) who said IRA ceasefire was the biggest threat to the union.
 
The vast majority in the south want a UI but are not prepared to compromise on stuff like the flag and anthem, Many of them will vote no
if it means the flag and anthem will be changed, Many people are incredibly proud of the flag and anthem and that trumps any desire
they may have for a UI,

But what exactly is it about the flag or anthem that makes them more important than the unity of the country?

The flag aspires to represent peace between Orange and Green - well why not do the actuality rather than cling to an aspirational flag that is a blockage to the actuality?
Ditto the anthem!

It's surely not beyond our wit to come up with a new flag and anthem that recognises a modern Ireland encompassing all?
 
There are days I simply don't understand your posts.

There is a game afoot. Reunification advocates are losing it massively. Not because of the Ipsos poll or what we would or wouldn't be prepared to concede on.
It's reacting to this stuff. The first job is to get the planning started. At the moment there is block on that from all sides except from the civic movement. Until that changes the only coverage on this will continue to be along the theme tune of "now is not the time" or "it will never be the time". So every time a poll like this one comes out it will be pounced on and the media will go to town on it. That's fair and reasonable from that viewpoint.
Every time you get an Ashcroft type poll - you will get paradoxically get the "it's just an outlier", "dubious polling source" etc etc.

There are a few things coming into confluence right now. 1) SF have polled at 30-35% for a long time now. 2) Irrespective of the likelihood of it happening, the prospect of SF in government in Dublin has galvanised those who don't want reunification to happen across the media, public discourse and of course its political opponents on both sides of the border. That is to be expected. 3) Cost of living crisis focusing minds on the euro in the pocket. 4) recovery from the pandemic.

And much as I might laud Shared Ireland Podcast, Think32 and other movements, Ireland's Future is the ONLY active movement trying to go about bringing controlled, open, agreed constitutional change on the island and some of them are being attacked for it.

This is going to take time. If for no other reason than the evidence for, justification for, undeniable democratic requirement for reunification will take some time to arrive. So any polling asking what people are prepared to concede or compromise on right now is as valid as any poll claiming 50% to 27% as some kind of victory. It is for a purpose. And the interpretation of both proves it.

Posted many times and it is increasingly being pointed out by Brian Feeney and other commentators in the North - our view of the issues, our view of the plight of nationalists for the last century, our view of even what constitutes the Irish nation has been completely warped by the troubles and the PIRA campaign such that any acknowledgement of or advocacy for a 32 county Ireland, which is what Collins fought for in the war of independence, is seen as anything from tacit support for to out right justification of that PIRA campaign and therefore to be shunned accordingly. You can see evidence of it every day in this thread.

Reunification should be done properly. It should include planning, discussion and agreement ideally in advance of a BP but cannot be stalled for the lack of willing engagement. The reality on the ground is that a BP held at the end of the decade will pass or fail by Brexit margins. A BP planned for and executed properly will pass safely enough. That reality is something that is being ignored in the hope if it is not discussed it will just go away and it won't - and it won't because our troubles happened 100 years ago but for the nationalist population their wish for freedom, no less justified than that of Collins or Tom Barry who we seek to commemorate has never been realised. I don't wish to assimilate anyone, I don't want to take away their Britishness, I understand that there is 800-900,000 people on the island who wish NI to stay part of the UK and they must be treated with respect and brought into a new agreed Ireland with a level of rights and freedoms that they systematically denied nationalists for a century. The GFA is the mechanism to achieve that.

Over the next few years I believe the rearguard action will intensify on both sides of the border because the change that is coming is inevitable.

We can bring about that change constructively, positively, including not marginalising, we can notionally build an entirely new Ireland based on rights as envisaged in the proclamation - in that Ireland, when the time comes, people will embrace a new symbology and a new identity but it is going to take time.


And what parts of the above are at variance with what I wrote exactly? :unsure:
 
But what exactly is it about the flag or anthem that makes them more important than the unity of the country?

The flag aspires to represent peace between Orange and Green - well why not do the actuality rather than cling to an aspirational flag that is a blockage to the actuality?
Ditto the anthem!

It's surely not beyond our wit to come up with a new flag and anthem that recognises a modern Ireland encompassing all?
MLMD said on friday night that flag and anthem can be discussed but made it clear she sees the flag as our flag and the anthem
is our anthem, Going by that she would be against changing them,
 
Why wouldn't rejoining the Commonwealth be on the table? It would have to be voted for naturally but I'd have no issue at all with a United Ireland voting one way or another on rejoining the Commonwealth, unsurprisingly I'd be voting against it, if that's what the majority of Irish citizens across the 32 counties want then we should go for it.
For the obvious reason..........
 
MLMD said on friday night that flag and anthem can be discussed but made it clear she sees the flag as our flag and the anthem
is our anthem, Going by that she would be against changing them,

She'd be entitled to a single vote the same as the rest of us. Personally I don't get the longing for the symbolisms when something as concrete as an actual reunited country could be within reach.
 
MLMD said on friday night that flag and anthem can be discussed but made it clear she sees the flag as our flag and the anthem
is our anthem, Going by that she would be against changing them,
Yea but you have to take it as MLMcD saying that as leader of SF. She is not against changing them.
 
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