No Parking = No City

[Stacky]

Can anyone think of any differences between Groningen and Cork?

Why?

How much time do you have?

 

[PROCNA2018]

Why?

How much time do you have?

Because it is not a like for like comparison.
Not even remotely.

Landscape.
Geography.
Infrastructure.
Public transport.
National transport infrastructure.

Try to be practical.

You can cycle around the city.
You can't cycle to Carrigaline or Carrigtwohill or Blarney.
The bus network covers the city.
The train network *commuting* covers East to Cobh etc only.
Groningen is flat, I've been there.
You can cycle for miles in any direction on perfectly good roads, and the cycle infrastructure is built in.
Cork is in a river valley with hills north and south, no urban light rail, no cycling infrastructure and unless you're tour de francing it, you can't cycle to commuter towns safely not to mention in time.
Groningen has 2 (maybe 3) railway stations with trains running to anywhere in Holland or further in Europe on a second by second punctuality.

You can easily go to and from Groningen on public transport or under your own steam.
Unless you're living inside the city bounds even the new ones, you can't commute to town other than by car.

Difference between you and I, I would like to remove the car from Cork City centre when it's practical. You want to do it whether it's practical or not. As for the Park and Ride, fantastic service, we need about 5 or 6 more of them, at compass points around the city.

 

[Stacky]

Because it is not a like for like comparison.
Not even remotely.

Landscape.
Geography.
Infrastructure.
Public transport.
National transport infrastructure.

Try to be practical.

You can cycle around the city.
You can't cycle to Carrigaline or Carrigtwohill or Blarney.
The bus network covers the city.
The train network *commuting* covers East to Cobh etc only.
Groningen is flat, I've been there.
You can cycle for miles in any direction on perfectly good roads, and the cycle infrastructure is built in.
Cork is in a river valley with hills north and south, no urban light rail, no cycling infrastructure and unless you're tour de francing it, you can't cycle to commuter towns safely not to mention in time.
Groningen has 2 (maybe 3) railway stations with trains running to anywhere in Holland or further in Europe on a second by second punctuality.

You can easily go to and from Groningen on public transport or under your own steam.
Unless you're living inside the city bounds even the new ones, you can't commute to town other than by car.

Difference between you and I, I would like to remove the car from Cork City centre when it's practical. You want to do it whether it's practical or not. As for the Park and Ride, fantastic service, we need about 5 or 6 more of them, at compass points around the city.

More park & ride.

Ok.

"Landscape and Geography" are the same thing and "infrastructure" is improving locally and nationally and no point complaining about poor public transport options if you want to be able to drive and store your car on a street in the city centre all day.

Everyone wants great public transport as long as any improvements does not affect their private car movement options.

Cork is flat East-West and it has and is developing cycling infrastructure currently on site as well as further rail improvements on the Mallow line.

Young people etc are eschewing cars and swapping for e-bikes and scooters anyway as they can save a fortune on tax/insurance/parking/fuel etc.

 

[PROCNA2018]

More park & ride.

Ok.

"Landscape and Geography" are the same thing and "infrastructure" is improving locally and nationally and no point complaining about poor public transport options if you want to be able to drive and store your car on a street in the city centre all day.

Everyone wants great public transport as long as any improvements does not affect their private car movement options.

Cork is flat East-West and it has and is developing cycling infrastructure currently on site as well as further rail improvements on the Mallow line.

Young people etc are eschewing cars and swapping for e-bikes and scooters anyway as they can save a fortune on tax/insurance/parking/fuel etc.

They're not.
Landscape is the shape of the land.
Geography is where.

So I can't complain about public transport options if I want to be able to drive and store my car in the city centre all day. When in fact it is, I have to drive and store my car in the city centre because the public transport options are not there for me to do otherwise - hence why I am complaining about them.

I want great public transport improvements because I think it would benefit the city and country to have them. We are about to spaff 30 billion on Metro North in Dublin. We used to have a tram and rail service that went all across the city and out to Muskerry, Youghal, Crosshaven, Monkstown. Put that back and no one would need a car in town or to get to town.

Young people are eschewing cars and swapping e-bikes and scooters for the reasons you mentioned.
How many young people are using e-bikes and scooters to get from Midleton to town? They're using them to get around the city - as I said.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

They're not.
Landscape is the shape of the land.
Geography is where.

So I can't complain about public transport options if I want to be able to drive and store my car in the city centre all day. When in fact it is, I have to drive and store my car in the city centre because the public transport options are not there for me to do otherwise - hence why I am complaining about them.

I want great public transport improvements because I think it would benefit the city and country to have them. We are about to spaff 30 billion on Metro North in Dublin. We used to have a tram and rail service that went all across the city and out to Muskerry, Youghal, Crosshaven, Monkstown. Put that back and no one would need a car in town or to get to town.

Young people are eschewing cars and swapping e-bikes and scooters for the reasons you mentioned.
How many young people are using e-bikes and scooters to get from Midleton to town? They're using them to get around the city - as I said.

Don't mind Stacky , he is just trotting out the same old bollocks on this subject with years.

**parking outside BTs/Keanes post incoming**


Cork has a substandard public transport system. Putting in extensive cycle infrastructure whilst removing swathes of on street parking surrounding the city centre is terrible planning. End of story.

 

[Stacky]

They're not.
Landscape is the shape of the land.
Geography is where.

So I can't complain about public transport options if I want to be able to drive and store my car in the city centre all day. When in fact it is, I have to drive and store my car in the city centre because the public transport options are not there for me to do otherwise - hence why I am complaining about them.

I want great public transport improvements because I think it would benefit the city and country to have them. We are about to spaff 30 billion on Metro North in Dublin. We used to have a tram and rail service that went all across the city and out to Muskerry, Youghal, Crosshaven, Monkstown. Put that back and no one would need a car in town or to get to town.

Young people are eschewing cars and swapping e-bikes and scooters for the reasons you mentioned.
How many young people are using e-bikes and scooters to get from Midleton to town? They're using them to get around the city - as I said.

Midleton has suburban rail to the city at 15-minute intervals so just bring your bike/scooter and you have increasing cycle lanes in the city.

Put in the public transport options (better bus and light-rail) and it will happen anyway as the petro-car lobby has nearly destroyed the planet and are finally realising that they are not part of the future like they were before with us all dependent on global despots from the Middle East to Russia etc.

 

[Stacky]

There is no going back to this thankfully

 

[PROCNA2018]

There is no going back to this thankfullyView attachment 14312

I don't want to go back to it.
I want what you want.

You're right on Midleton as I said the rail network only looks east to Cobh, etc.
But to your point, if everyone using it is bringing an ebike or folded scooter on to it, the capacity for passengers is greatly reduced, my point was no one is e-biking or scootering to town from Midleton.

Incidentally - we haven't that photo situation in Cork in decades.

 

[Stacky]

I don't want to go back to it.
I want what you want.

You're right on Midleton as I said the rail network only looks east to Cobh, etc.
But to your point, if everyone using it is bringing an ebike or folded scooter on to it, the capacity for passengers is greatly reduced, my point was no one is e-biking or scootering to town from Midleton.

Incidentally - we haven't that photo situation in Cork in decades.

I know.

Just 1 bus and bus stop in that photo and about 100+ cars and it is radically different now for the better.

Serious €€€ investment has to be made in public transport in Cork but all we have are promises as per usual and then people will hold it all up by objecting anyway.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

it's just 350 spaces like and the majority of them were removed to allow pedestrianisation of 20 odd streets which has been a nice improvement.