Mick Wallace - Ultimate Tool

If you listen to Wallace instead of slating him he says he does feel sending weapons in Ukraine is going to stop the war if anything the war has escalated the fact that we are talking about nuclear war shows the diplomats have left the room. No one is interested in an negotiated settlement when Musk put forward a compromise idea he was hastily shot down for being pro Putin. Anyone who is opposed to the narrative that the world keep giving arms the war will end well.
In your opinion how / why would it stop the war?

And I didn't slate anyone FYI, I disagreed with their outlook.
 
In your opinion how / why would it stop the war?

And I didn't slate anyone FYI, I disagreed with their outlook.
The sending of weapons is just making it worse instead of working on peace settlement.

You might not slate them but posters and people online are claiming they are pro Putin MEP's when they are clearly anti war. Anyone who is not biased will know this.
 
The sending of weapons is just making it worse instead of working on peace settlement.

You might not slate them but posters and people online are claiming they are pro Putin MEP's when they are clearly anti war. Anyone who is not biased will know this.
Yeah it happens in every big online discussion in both directions. Just pointing out that I didn't insult you or them.

And sorry but you're gonna have to give abit more detail there. The effect its having is giving the advantage to the Ukraine. If no weapons were sent...well Russia would still be invading them. The war would still be going on. It would just presumably be taking place further into Ukrainian territory and with more dead Ukranians and less dead Russians.

Russia already had the Crimea and their chunk of the Donbas at the start of the year. Peace talks were intermittently happening but in the end were meaningless because Russia had what it wanted and Ukraine could do nothing about it and nobody was going to help them in any meaningful sense.

Whatever legitimacy the Russian claims might have had stopped at those borders, but that ultimately was not enough to satisfy them so they invaded the rest of the country where it is *very* clear they are not wanted but they have continued to fight to take it anyway. Even as they are pushed back to the North and East of the Donbas, they continue to mobilise and send more troops into the Ukraine and launch new offensives out of Donbas.

And they're asking for talks? Talks about what? Diplomatic solutions rely on compromise and in this case Russia has refused to do so at every step, everyone else has. They were given exactly what they said they wanted and all they did was ask for more. And then they came to take it by force when it wasn't handed to them. They have offered nothing to support the notion of a negotiated solution.

You want to be serious about it, withdraw. Even back to the Donbas area you had and the Crimea and then say you want talks. It might not work at this point as things turn against you but you could at least say you actually tried.
 
I read her speech. And the tabled amendment. Its a lovely sentiment and the underlying principle is highly commendable but is devoid of any sense of what the problem is and in reality supports the notion that waging and offensive war is a valid way of conducting international affairs.

Russia has recently announced it is constricting 300,000 soldiers, for what exactly? To defend themselves? Ukraine has, quite scrupulously, avoided invading Russia inspite of having a long border with them. Strikes on the main of Russian territory similarly are not being widely reported even by Russian sources, in spite of continued Russian strikes on population centres not on the front lines. Russia is not under attack but it is conscripting more soldiers and are openly talking about how it might just need to nuke someone to get its way.

So what should be done exactly? Let them trash the Ukraine? Let them roll their tanks over the border and do as they please? Because that is exactly what she is advocating in her stances. She is advocating that those who make War should be rewarded for doing so. That's a pretty warmongering stance.

In reality the west was actually pretty content to allow that to happen. In 2014 when Russia invaded the Donbas and annexed Crimea the west complained but never in any real sense contested it. In the exactly the same way when Russia previously did the same thing to Georgia in 2008. 2008 also being the year NATO formally declined Ukraines application for membership and has said already stated clearly that Ukraine won't be fast tracked into it while the war is ongoing in response to their recent request. Even in February when Russia invaded the west's initial reaction was to just shrug and offer the Ukranian president a nice place to ride off to. When it emerged that the Ukraine was actually going to seriously fight and contest the Russians it was only then they decided to arm them.

The west has never wanted a war with Russia, it has repeatedly stepped back when Russia has decided to draw a new line that was abut further forward than before.

I'm not a violent person, I don't like war and if Russia decided today that it would pull back over the border I would not be in favour of Ukraine striking at Russia in vengeance. This war is driven by an ongoing Russian invasion of a sovereign nation, not the Ukraine and not Nato.

If you want to talk about NATO fucking up, talk about the Balkans, not Ukraine.

None of us wanted to deal with this and don't want the consequences of it, it has been dumped on us. The overwhelming sentiment is not knives out, its just a wish that they would fuck off and leave everyone alone.
Thanks for that post Megelus. King Silkbeard's rubbish was really annoying but I didn't have the energy or knowledge to put together what you just said. So can Clare Daly and Mick Walkace please come back to the real world and stop embarrassing the country with their theoretical constructs.
 
EVENT GUIDE - HIGHLIGHT
The Complete Stone Roses
The Oliver Plunkett, Oliver Plunkett St.

1st Aug 2024 @ 8:00 pm
More info..

The Flames

Cantys, Tomorrow @ 10pm

More events ▼
Top