loyalist paramilitaries

[Stacky]

Interesting that you "could not care less" about the people involved in carrying out the likes of the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings.

By the way can you tell us about the "mercurial mysterious" council of 15 that oversees FF.

Both sides are / were nuts and achieved nothing but deaths after a 30+ year campaign.

I am not so sure that FF were linked to an armed paramiliatary group linked to murders, robberies or rackateering in the past 25 years ?

Unless you know otherwise ?

 

[Corcaigh32]

The committee of 15 is now a committee of 21 and they are a nominal group with no real power within FF.

I treat yesterday's report in 2 ways. One, this is how Tory governments have always treated nationalism and republicanism, which of course is their prerogative, and this will do nothing to advance the peace process, on the contrary it will further destabilise it at such a sensitive time.

However, two, is that while the description I have been posting here as recently as yesterday with Corkbhoy is not necessarily different, one thing in that report is very disturbing. There should be no need for an Army Council anymore. Notionally you could understand when looking at it through the PIRA prism, that they have decommissioned their weapons (unlike the aforementioned loyalists paramilitaries), have declared the war is over and the ASUs have been stood down. They are no longer engaged in a freedom "armalite" war. Why still have an Army Council? One presumably RIRA does not recognise.

While the timing of the report is poor, it is not unexpected. Tory England and Enda's Ireland want to eradicate SF at any cost. Even if it means destabilising the peace process. However from an SF perspective, there is no talking their way out of the continued existence of the Army Council (IF, the report is accurate).

SF leadership in the North and South must have seen this coming. In the run up to the elction in the 26 counties it continues to show the lack of political nous that the leadership are showing and the electoral damage this will do.

Gerry Adams needs to go.

 

[SoundMan]

What's so sacrosanct about the last 25 years as a matter of interest? Didn't Berty Aherne used to brag that when Nelson's Column was blown up his old man was one of the first suspected And as for Labour isn't there a minister in this town employing a guy directly involved in a murder. Or is that why you chose 25 years so that people ignore the gunning down of Larry White in Mount Nebo when deciding what are parties that are OK to trust in the Dáil, and what are not.

 

[Oncewashandsome]

The committee of 15 is now a committee of 21 and they are a nominal group with no real power within FF.

I treat yesterday's report in 2 ways. One, this is how Tory governments have always treated nationalism and republicanism, which of course is their prerogative, and this will do nothing to advance the peace process, on the contrary it will further destabilise it at such a sensitive time.

However, two, is that while the description I have been posting here as recently as yesterday with Corkbhoy is not necessarily different, one thing in that report is very disturbing. There should be no need for an Army Council anymore. Notionally you could understand when looking at it through the PIRA prism, that they have decommissioned their weapons (unlike the aforementioned loyalists paramilitaries), have declared the war is over and the ASUs have been stood down. They are no longer engaged in a freedom "armalite" war. Why still have an Army Council? One presumably RIRA does not recognise.

While the timing of the report is poor, it is not unexpected. Tory England and Enda's Ireland want to eradicate SF at any cost. Even if it means destabilising the peace process. However from an SF perspective, there is no talking their way out of the continued existence of the Army Council (IF, the report is accurate).

SF leadership in the North and South must have seen this coming. In the run up to the elction in the 26 counties it continues to show the lack of political nous that the leadership are showing and the electoral damage this will do.

Gerry Adams needs to go.

...long to reign over us,
God save our beard.

 

[jimmym]

What's so sacrosanct about the last 25 years as a matter of interest? Didn't Berty Aherne used to brag that when Nelson's Column was blown up his old man was one of the first suspected And as for Labour isn't there a minister in this town employing a guy directly involved in a murder. Or is that why you chose 25 years so that people ignore the gunning down of Larry White in Mount Nebo when deciding what are parties that are OK to trust in the Dáil, and what are not.

be careful or you will be accused of WHATABOUTERY.

 

[SoundMan]

The committee of 15 is now a committee of 21 and they are a nominal group with no real power within FF.

I treat yesterday's report in 2 ways. One, this is how Tory governments have always treated nationalism and republicanism, which of course is their prerogative, and this will do nothing to advance the peace process, on the contrary it will further destabilise it at such a sensitive time.

However, two, is that while the description I have been posting here as recently as yesterday with Corkbhoy is not necessarily different, one thing in that report is very disturbing. There should be no need for an Army Council anymore. Notionally you could understand when looking at it through the PIRA prism, that they have decommissioned their weapons (unlike the aforementioned loyalists paramilitaries), have declared the war is over and the ASUs have been stood down. They are no longer engaged in a freedom "armalite" war. Why still have an Army Council? One presumably RIRA does not recognise.

While the timing of the report is poor, it is not unexpected. Tory England and Enda's Ireland want to eradicate SF at any cost. Even if it means destabilising the peace process. However from an SF perspective, there is no talking their way out of the continued existence of the Army Council (IF, the report is accurate).

SF leadership in the North and South must have seen this coming. In the run up to the elction in the 26 counties it continues to show the lack of political nous that the leadership are showing and the electoral damage this will do.

Gerry Adams needs to go.

As a matter of interest why does GA need to go? If as we're led to believe he's on this Army Council, Council of 7, Whatever, then surely he's an elected TD deciding the direction of the party. Wouldn't it be worse if he was just some nameless faceless guy in the background pulling strings and unanswerable to anybody. Is Martin McGuinness on this "Army Council"? Mary Lou? Pearce Docherty? Pat Docherty? Michelle Gildernew? Who?

Tell you what - I know a hell of a lot less about FF's Council but to suggest they've no real power within FF is incorrect from what I know of it. Didn't the parliamentary party have their wings even further clipped recently at their Ard Fheis?

 

[Stacky]

What's so sacrosanct about the last 25 years as a matter of interest? Didn't Berty Aherne used to brag that when Nelson's Column was blown up his old man was one of the first suspected And as for Labour isn't there a minister in this town employing a guy directly involved in a murder. Or is that why you chose 25 years so that people ignore the gunning down of Larry White in Mount Nebo when deciding what are parties that are OK to trust in the Dáil, and what are not.

What timeline would suit your whataboutery about political parties have a miliatary wing currently involved in murder, robbery and rackateering ?

AFAIK Fianna Fail was founded to get away from the whole armed struggle thing.

Any other party in the current Dail cureently linked to murder etc ?

 

[Corcaigh32]

Soundman - I used to be (a long time ago) a national officer of FF. I have even campaigned in Committee of 15 elections (when it was 15) on numerous occasions. I know they are not as influential as say, the 1922 committe of the Tory party in England.

Gerry Adams needs to go because he is a focal point for SF's opponents and while to republicans, they see no issue, the real politique of things especially in the 26 counties are, the voters who SF want to and NEED to attract will not cross the rubicon while he is leader. Why? Because every time a report like this comes out, and God knows it was brought out yesterday for precisely this effect, it brings any progress SF have made with respect to attracting floating voters back months (or years).

Bear in mind I have voted for SF and consider myself a republican. There is a gaping chasm of logic between internal SF electoral strategy and the range of forces ranged against them in the 26 and the 6, in England, Dublin and in the media. I genuinely thought that the MacGuinness presidential campaign would have been built on in this regard by now. Instead and maybe directly BECAUSE, MLMcD / PD are not Northern SF people and did not live through the troubles, the work they are doing is being undermined when reports like this come out.

It gives plenty of ammunition (pun intended), to SF's enemies.

That's why the party needs to join the 21st century politically and electorally in the 26 counties to a level where they are already in the North. To do that, like it or not, Adams has to go.

 

[Stacky]

If there was no P.I.R.A. murder and rackateering (called crime in civilised societies) more than 20 years after the ceasefire there would be no need for reports brought out "yesterday" or any day.

When is there a good time to expose this publically ?

Ditch the Adams and a lot of the knickledragging types with a gra for the "ormed straggle" might also dissapear back into the shadows.

How many more times will Mary Lou have to stand up and defend this criminal stuff that she has not certainty either way but has to play the deniability card again and again ?

 

[Corcaigh32]

Well I suppose the trick there is was it PIRA murder/racketeering or the rump now called RIRA. If they can prove PIRA exists operationally, even if it is not engaged in political violence - SF credibility is shot to ribbons (pun intended).