Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Gregory_Mike]

I'd hate to be Pat Ryan right now

So you’d rather be Liam Cahill?

Having lots of options in multiple positions and strength in depth, is a dream situation for Pat.

 

[Bronxrebel]

That's an interesting take for a guy who insists that Joyce, who didn't play in our only two victories, MUST be returned to number 6 and others be moved around to accommodate him.

I've nothing at all against Joyce, and I think he's one of the better players in the squad, but changing a winning team in order to accommodate him, and in your opinion that just HAS to be at 6 strikes me as tunnel-vision from you. Your one-eyedness in trying to claim Downey "played a major role" in allowing Tipp's goal, and ignored the fact he helped anchor our defence against the much vaunted Limerick and a Tipp side playing at home with their backs to the wall I think says much about your annoyance that Downey has done well in contributing to a line, and indeed overall defence, that had been in trouble when your hero Joyce played at 6

Personally I think Downey has shown himself part of our best HB combination when he was playing at 6 - I don't think he'd be anywhere near as effective at wingback. I also think it's great to have Joyce as an option to fill in a number of positions, including 6 if need be.

It's just that your insistence that Joyce MUST start at 6 is bizarre, and it looks like Cork management aren't as besotted with Joyce at 6 as you clearly are. BTW, Joyce is NOT a superstar. Yet!

The “one-eyedness” isn’t coming from me. I said Downey has played well but from the sounds of it here you would think he was flawless. We know that’s not the case.

Please stop with the “Tipp side with their backs against the wall” bit. They were awful.

We know nothing about management’s perspective on this because we have no way of knowing how fit Joyce is.

 

[Bronxrebel]

Lads would want to calm down on the Downey v Joyce debate

1 - we haven’t even qualified yet so it may all be irrelevant

2 - Joyce is our best 6 and probably our best player, to not find a place for him would be crazy. It doesn’t necessarily have to be at 6

3 - Downey has been superb at 6 and I would stick with him there until it needs changing

4 - Posters are being a bit harsh on Joyce comparing his two performances against Robs two. You must take into account how we performed as a unit in the last two games. It’s been phenomenal and makes everyone’s job a little easier, not easy, just a little easier. Much less fire fighting for Rob

I don’t totally agree but I think this is a fair take.

 

[The Dagda]

It's fantastic to have a player like Joyce who can cover right across the half back line and midfield on the sub bench.
Bar the forwards we have good cover for each line. Kingston is a super sub but we are lacking an abrasive ball winner in the style of Harnedy/Barrett/Connolly/Dalton on the bench.
Other then that we have one of the better sub benches.

 

[North Cork]

A couple of points.

Niall O Leary was dropped against Waterford and it was the best thing that could have happened to him. Since his return he has been outstanding.
Players can get a little careless if they are too sure of their position. The threat of losing their starting spot usually results in improved performances when they get back in and that has certainly happened with O Leary.

I don't think Ciaran Joyce has been at his best this year , I think the rest and the added competition will make him an even better player going forward.

Players need to know that management are being fair to everyone. If a player comes in and does really well then he will be unhappy if he gets dropped for no reason other than to replace him with someone else.
Players looking at Ciaran Joyce sitting on the bench waiting for his chance to get back in will have confidence in management that if they get a chance to play and do well then they might stay in the team.
Joe Canning and Liam Sheedy spoke on Sunday about Cork playing as a team for the first time in a long time.

I disagree slightly.... I think they are now playing as a squad for the first time in a long time.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

It's fantastic to have a player like Joyce who can cover right across the half back line and midfield on the sub bench.
Bar the forwards we have good cover for each line. Kingston is a super sub but we are lacking an abrasive ball winner in the style of Harnedy/Barrett/Connolly/Dalton on the bench.
Other then that we have one of the better sub benches.

I think Power would be a good edition in the abrasive ball winning department and was very close to making it but unfortunately he suffered a hand injury against Inniscarra, I heard it was a broken thumb but cant verify the accuracy of that.

 

[SoundMan]

The “one-eyedness” isn’t coming from me. I said Downey has played well but from the sounds of it here you would think he was flawless. We know that’s not the case.

Please stop with the “Tipp side with their backs against the wall” bit. They were awful.

We know nothing about management’s perspective on this because we have no way of knowing how fit Joyce is.

Really - who here has posted that Downey was flawless? I think most here accept that Joyce is a good player and we're a much better squad with him than without, and the Downey had two very good performances in the last two games. Where the fanaticism has crept in though is the insistence by some that Joyce MUST start at 6, which is clearly not the case.

You want the TEAM to be better than the sum of the parts. Even if Joyce is better this season at intercounty 6 than Downey (debatable) - the most important thing is the overall package from positions 1-15. If Downey at 6 and Joyce at 9 (for instance) is better in the overall scheme of things then that's how it should be.

Insisting that so-and-so is better individually at 6 (or 3 or 15 etc) than someone else, and as such should start there irrespective of how much better the overall team package might be with someone else playing there and the individual utilized elsewhere is shortsighted.

Put it this way - it was said that John Lennon was a better drummer than Ringo Star, but it's to the benefit of the Beatles that they didn't get hung up on that and they saw the overall package would be better with Lennon playing guitar

 

[Corkfan82]

Being dropped (sort of!) might be the best thing that happens to Joyce. Bring labelled the next BC, the future of Cork hurling etc must be huge pressure for a young fella. When he comes back, hopefully midfield, he'll be able to hurl with a bit more freedom I reckon.
Also the emergence of AC as another "superstar in the making" should take the focus off him a bit and reduce the sometimes ridiculous expectations from the Cork hurling public.

I think you nailed it here PM.

Joyce was expected to lead at a young age last year and this year, not easy.

Now R Downey, Fitz, Barrett, Connelly all stepping up.

A quality player like Joyce an play anywhere from 2 to 9.

I dont want him to be the next TOM, played everywhere so Joyce can fill in midfield or the halfback line.

Leave Joyce fight his way back in lads.

While R Downey has been excellent the past 2 games. Opposition will target him in his slow turning, his big test will be against better centre forwards later if we qualify when they dont playvto his strength ( high ball etc)

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Its much too early to say, Joyce is not our best 6, after 2 games with Downey there.

Agree Joyce is not B Corcoran.

The only place I've seen him compared to BC and saying he is the best player on the team is here and as we well know lads here get very excited and carried away over new promising players and blow them out of all proportion. Best to ignore these comparisons and let him develop at his own pace and we will see were he ends up.

 

[Pooman]

The only place I've seen him compared to BC and saying he is the best player on the team is here and as we well know lads here get very excited and carried away over new promising players and blow them out of all proportion. Best to ignore these comparisons and let him develop at his own pace and we will see were he

Ciarán Joyce: 'Only guy you could compare him to is someone like Brian Corcoran'

The second part in Jack McKay's piece looks at how Ciarán Joyce rose to become one of the most prominent young hurlers in the country

www.echolive.ie

Don't get out much....