Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[RebelOnTheDitch]

We are not an attractive prospect for any outsider or young manager. No aspiring manager would take this team as a long term project. Very much a second rate side in most respects.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

One game against us????? Shefflin in his first year already guided Galway to beat his native KK in the championship as well as a creditable draw against Wexford who gave Clare a much better game than Cork managed, and so get get Galway to a Leinster final. Fair enough KK beat them second time around but it wasn't bad going for his first year managing a squad so lacking in talent that they've been overly reliant on just four players to score.

Interesting to see that you think Shefflin no better (perhaps even worse) an intercounty manager than Kingston though.

Nope, I just not judging him after a couple of games like you are.

. Fair enough KK beat them second time around but it wasn't bad going for his first year managing a squad so lacking in talent that they've been overly reliant on just four players to score.

More nonsense, on top of the 4 I mentioned last week, Concannon and Fahy have scored 1-10 each Monaghan has scored 15 points.

 

[SoundMan]

I didn't say anyone said it - I was pointing out that that notion exists.

As far as I am aware you're a Barr's man r&b. A club that is steeped in history in both codes with a massive tradition that has produced heroes for Cork down through the years. Yet from memory Barr's have not won a county in nearly 20 or so years. And I am only using them as an example not having a go, there is the idea abroad that certain clubs "know better", "have more clout" etc based on their traditional place in the annals of Cork hurling. Could just as easily be Glen or Sars etc.

My point being we need to get away from that and go purely from the point of view of what works - open docket - it shouldn't matter if it is a Newtown manager or a Barr's manager or a Glen manager - it should be about who can get Cork back to glory.

Considine has written 2 pieces and maybe more since we went out.
First one was KK has to go.
Second one yesterday was players can't have a say in management.

So to answer your question - look what happened when players were cut out of the management selection process last time - we had the strike. That was bad for EVERYONE. Those in place and those who went on strike. All because the idea that CCB dictates and players play was deemed to be the rule of the day. No one is suggesting the players pick the manager but they have to have a say. Considine saying is stirring the pot - a pot which rekindles a time where there was centralised control and what was in the best interests of Cork success came second. And THAT is what I meant - in so far as there can't be vested interests at a club level, there can't be at CCB level either - it simply won't bring us success.

I'm reminded of a lady I worked with who was good friends with Ger Mac at the time - I ended up on tv for 20 secs about the strike and the following day she read me the riot act about what I was doing and how dare I attack him and he is a Cork legend. She refused to speak to me for weeks afterwards and refused point blank to go to a Cork game while any of the strikers were involved either on the pitch or otherwise. And for the sake of it, the very first thing I said on the back of the truck was no one was anti Ger Mac or wanted rid of him or disrespected him or his contribution to Cork hurling, in fact when I was small we were neighbours with him.

Point being we need to leave the agendas, the vested interests, the score settling type stuff behind us.
Even on here over the last couple of weeks - Players on drugs, cosy cartels, closed shops..........like Cork hurling was a mafia and there was an omuerta that said if you don't go along you don't get along.

I have posted loads of times of the expertise on this forum alone. Yourself and junior f and others who while I might disagree with ye on bits and pieces - clearly have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the game. If you guys exist here among the 20 or 30 regulars in this thread - then the know how is definitely there in the county to get this right. But we won't do it if we stick to the usual, where if a person is appointed they're doomed before they begin, if b player is selected the season is over before a poc of a ball.

This year should mark a watershed in Cork hurling. You yerself has called for a clearing of the decks.
I don't think KK will be there next year. I think there is another ticket being prepared. I would think Pat Ryan and Wayne Sherlock and maybe Ben O'Connor would be good although per Soundy's post above clearly they would have no senior intercounty previous experience - maybe that isn't a bad thing - if we get a clear run without interference, with the support of all internally and from the supporter base.

Proc, no disrespect meant, as I usually find you level headed but some of the stuff above stuck me as being very odd. Don't know who you think is posting here that Glen or Sars or Barrs know better. Or Blackrock come to that and that the manager should come from one or other of them???

I honestly think, and it's not an anti-KK agenda, that KK is not the man for the job. I'd hoped he was when he was first appointed. I had my doubts on his second appointment but hoped to be proven wrong and shur he'd certainly have learnt from his first stint - wouldn't he. I just think this instant reappointment smacks of "we'll accept mediocrity" in Cork management by whoever in CCB reappointed him.

You speak of a pot where there was centralised control - well if the executive and/or COO of the CCB reappointed KK in the dressing room straight after the defeat to Galway I can't think of any more centralised control tbh. As someone else posted even Frank wouldn't have done that without getting a rubber stamp from the delegates first.

You speak of agendas and vested interests and score settling.
I've only seen people speak well of KK personally and his undoubted love of Cork. Don't know what "score settling" is involved. I genuinely don't know who has a vested interest (in the sinister use of the term) in KK leaving or staying on, and as for agenda - I think it fair to say the only agenda that has been displayed is wanting to see Cork win the All Ireland sooner rather than later.


The "usual where if a person is appointed they're doomed before they begin"????? Kieran Kingston has already begun. He failed and was given another go at it. Then he failed again. And now he's been given an extension. I don't know where the "if a person is appointed they're doomed before they begin" is coming from to be honest. That remark would have made sense 7 years ago in 2015 if there were people criticising him before he was even appointed. It doesn't make any sense (to me anyway) in 2022 after his already two terms and now to be a third/extended.

I think any new manager irrespective of his/her club/county is deserving of our support before they do anything to deserve otherwise. I just think KK has alas for him and Cork hurling, done enough not to deserve the universal unquestioning support of the Cork hurling public any more. If he's the manager of Cork in the championship in 2023 I'll be extremely disappointed (I'm sure there'll be a few delighted) but the team will always get my support.

 

[SoundMan]

Nope, I just not judging him after a couple of games like you are.

More nonsense, on top of the 4 I mentioned last week, Concannon and Fahy have scored 1-10 each Monaghan has scored 15 points.

Ah, it's gone from "Based on one game" to "after a couple of games". Soon it'll be "a few games" given that I specifically mentioned 4 already

And I think you know the point i was making re the preponderance of scoring from the galway team.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Ah, it's gone from "Based on one game" to "after a couple of games". Soon it'll be "a few games" given that I specifically mentioned 4 already

And I think you know the point i was making re the preponderance of scoring from the galway team.

On sweet jebus you really are a dumber, I asked was it one game yesterday against us. Then today you mentioned four other games that you never mentioned yesterday hence me saying a couple of games today.
And yes I do know the point you were making and yes it is nonsense as you clearly have no idea who is doing the scoring bar my post from last week mentioning four players.

 

[SoundMan]

On sweet jebus you really are a dumber, I asked was it one game yesterday against us. Then today you mentioned four other games that you never mentioned yesterday hence me saying a couple of games today.
And yes I do know the point you were making and yes it is nonsense as you clearly have no idea who is doing the scoring bar my post from last week mentioning four players.

It of course wasn't on one game yesterday against us. And neither was my comment on Lohan based on one game previously against us. Which should have been very obvious from the context of the original post - even to you.

 

[BossHogg]

We are not an attractive prospect for any outsider or young manager. No aspiring manager would take this team as a long term project. Very much a second rate side in most respects.

I disagree. Two all ireland u20 teams, and a minor all ireland winning team are not an attractive prospect?

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

It of course wasn't on one game yesterday against us. And neither was my comment on Lohan based on one game previously against us. Which should have been very obvious from the context of the original post - even to you.

I didn't ask about Lohan, I clearly bolded the part about Shefflin and seeing as Galway haven't faced any of the teams we faced this year, how could it have been obvious. You were clearly comparing Kingston to Shefflin based on the fact we lost to Galway.

 

[SoundMan]

I didn't ask about Lohan, I clearly bolded the part about Shefflin and seeing as Galway haven't faced any of the teams we faced this year, how could it have been obvious. You were clearly comparing Kingston to Shefflin based on the fact we lost to Galway.

No I wasn't. I was comparing how they'd done over their tenures (admittedly Shefflin's is relatively brief) as managers overall.

Do you agree that Lohan is a better manager than Kingston btw?

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

No I wasn't. I was comparing how they'd done over their tenures (admittedly Shefflin's is relatively brief) as managers overall.

It's a pointless comparison because it is brief.

Do you agree that Lohan is a better manager than Kingston btw?

No idea, he has certainly have got Clare to a good place but I will wait and see at the end of the year. If we had played Clare after we decided to mix up our style, we would have beat them imo.