Cork Hurlers - Part 2

Barrett I will give him credit for but there was little to nothing to do with Connolly and Joyce. Connolly was tearing clubs apart at 18 and sure Joyce is as good a young prospect in years. If anything Connolly has been fucked around not been given time until a few games ago and Joyce having to start at 5 or corner back was clueless too.

Exactly, they can't be thrown in which is why the fail safe environment of the league is where they should be playing. Gone are the days of "flying it in training"
Connolly has put down a marker thankfully
 
Harnedy getting flattened by a fair belt from Daithi Burke and Alan Cadogan throwing hands up looking for help from the ref instead of flying in to challenge for the ball. A moment that sums up this cork team.
 
As an observation on the last 5 or 6 pages of this thread, the worthiness of a post is in a direct, inverse proportion to the amount of emojis or gifs in it.

Would love if about 5 posters would take a break for a week and let the rest of us discuss hurling.
Democracy is a terrible fuckin thing at times😊😊😊oops emoj
Only codding boy
 
The biggest issue over the last few years in my opinion is a lack of coaching on hurling basics.
The reason for this is the manager just doesn't have any idea of what type of game plan he wants to implement. He keeps chopping and changing and therefore the actual coaching, practice and repetition of player skills and correct decision making just doesn't happen.
Management always seem to be firefighting and player development takes a back seat.
For example the 3 first half goal chances, incorrect decision was made each time.
And this has been happening all year,we have been creating loads of goal chances but not taking them.
Connelly's first goal against Waterford was off the back of Robbie striking too early and the keeper pushing the ball out to Connelly.
Other teams have a much better conversion rate in the same scenarios,think Waterford in the league final.
Very few players can generate the power required to beat an intercounty keeper from outside the 21 while running and must teams are coached to keep going to the 14 or closer before shooting or closer again and batting or just clip the ball over the bar if any of this is not possible.
Clearly we have not been doing this in training, it's the age old Maxim practice makes perfect.
We need a manager who has a supreme confidence in his game plan partnered with a coach who has the ability and hurling knowledge to implement this game plan. The players are there, they want to learn,they want improve, they want to win. Surely there has to be somebody who can knit it all together.
A huge decision to be made by the county board, they have to get it right .
 
I said during the winter that defeat to anyone bar Limerick in this years championship and we would have to deem the year a failure and so it was.

The game yesterday turned on so many little failings that have dogged us with a while but that have probably being overlooked given the major issues we have had regarding workrate and style of play in recent years.

I thought our workrate yesterday was still decent and the lads kept going to the bitter end. That's a marked difference from recent years when the team used just capitulate when things got tough. Our style of play still hasn't been properly ironed out. This is solely management's fault. The tippy tappy rubbish is so ingrained in our lads that even when going long you can see they are still not comfortable doing it. The sight of Tim and Connolly competing 5 on 2 or 2 on 1 inside yesterday after chasing a bad ball with support slow to arrive was very frustrating and indicative of a set up that still wasn't all reading of the same gameplan. Of course this should have been trialled during the league and wasn't and left us falling between 2 stools come campionship.

The first place to start is the first 10 seconds and that terrible mistake from Patrick Collins. Collins is a decent keeper but I'd be sceptical that he is of inter county standard. I and a few others here have been questioning having both Collins brothers on the panel going back since the start of last season. I think Patrick doesn't make enough saves and often makes wrong decisions when in possession. How many times was he hooked or blocked in this years league or championship? He got swallowed up down the pairc by Limerick and instead of handpassing or kicking the ball over the sideline he just overcarried it and conceded a free. I don't think he learns from mistakes. Both goals yesterday should have been comfortably stopped and the decision to lump a high ball down on Jack O’Connor at the end just beggar's belief but is in keeping with his questionable decision making. Also if Collins isn't making saves in games he's obviously not doing it in training which is probably giving our forward line a false sense of what it takes to beat a top quality goalkeeper. I hate being so critical of a guy who obviously gives so much time for the cause but it's a persistent problem for us.

I'd love to see Deccie Dalton get a trial in goal. How Cathal Hickey never got a run in there is beyond me but that ship has probably sailed now at his age. Davis might be worth a try. All I know is I'd like to see 2 keepers from outside the same household fighting for the position.

The next glaring issue yesterday was our wide count, misses goal chances and 2 balls off the post. This is another ongoing issue. We are consistently missing big chances. I wonder, in training was there so much time spent getting formation and style of play right that we neglected the basics of spending enough time on shooting? It's one thing hitting a bad wide under pressure but some of the misses yesterday an average club player would have scored them.

The final turning point for me yesterday was the play where Tim caught a massive ball layed it off to Jack O Connor who proceeds to take such a wide slow swing he could have been blocked from Loughrea, the ball then goes out for a Cork sideline where Naill O Leary rushes a sideline that gets cut out and Galway score from it and begin a little rally which ultimately finished us. That play, summed up the composure we are lacking.

The sideline didn't cover themselves in glory either. How Harnedy was left on that long while both Tim and Connolly were subbed was bizarre. Then we take off all our big men and still start hammering high ball into our small forwards.

For all those faults we were still only beaten by a point, although the game was of a poor standard overall I felt.

Special mention to Ciaran Joyce. Best player on the field in my opinion. I hope he is not overlooked when it comes to young hurler of the year. I know young Hayes from Clare, Butler from Kilkenny and O Neill from Limerick are going well but Joyce has been a colossus at center back. An absolute gem of a player.

Damien Cahalane, Robbie O Flynn, Luke Meade and Alan Cadogan (who I questioned here the other night and proved me wrong) were all very good I felt.

I'm hoping for a complete change of management in the coming month. Fingers crossed Pat Ryan is the new man in and he brings Wayne Sherlock with him. But who knows currently.
 
Collins: definitely not a match he'll remember with any relish. He let in soft goals and his puck outs weren't great. Might not get any other starting championship game.

O Leary: did OK without any major blunders.

Downey: popped up in May forward positions. I prefer defenders to defend. Will definitely be a better player in the coming years when he fills out a little more.

Cahalane: showed great character again this season,never knows when he's beaten. Much maligned by the wristy hurler brigade but I think he brings necessary aggression to our defence

Joyce: he should be chuffed with his year. Did well in all his games and the more he plays at CB the more assured he'll be.

Coleman: how to solve a problem like Maria? Lovely hurler, some great touches but overplays the ball as times. As I said before I like defenders who can defend. He is poor at that. A bit like TAA at Liverpool, great going forward but a nightmare when he has to defend.

Fitzgibbon: Cork love players like him but I doubt other teams would start him. Another who flatters when he has the ball but without it he can't impose himself on the game.

Made: certainly he buzzes around and gets in the odd tackle but he is not a replacement for Cooper. IMO we lack toughness around the middle.

O Flynn: he probably had his best season yet but disappears for stretches of the game when we need the scoreboard to be ticking over.

Lehane: same story again. When he is given spaces by weaker teams he can be devastating but against a defender who sticks to him all his ability drys up and he seems to disappear from the pitch.

Harnedy: never got going at all yesterday. He could have played his last match for the rebels. Last week the ground was rock hard and the could have effects his leg joints. Maybe yesterday caught up with him on that score. He's after been through the wars over the years, could be telling on him now.

Kingston: took his goal well but has a frustrating way of running into trouble. Another player who is not seen for lengthy periods.

Connelly: started well, tireless effort but IMO needed to take his pt early on and that might have settled him up he should be pleased how the season when for him.

O Mahony: he has a future in the forward line but I didn't think it on the sides. For me he is in the centre either CF or FF.

Special mention to Hoggy, probably the best free taker I have ever seen and in an age when free taking is essential it's madness not to start him. More than likely he won't be back for another season but we have been blessed to have witnessed his skill.

Overall a disappointing finish to a mediocre year. I can't understand why we take the ball into tackles when we haven't the strength to break them. It seems to be a failure year in year out, not any to win in the air or enough dirty ball and when we have it a failure to protect it.
 
There’s a contradiction here , is there not? He was wrong to play a 20yr old CF but should have thrown a 19 year old straight in at 6?
Hey lads, for me centre forward is the hardest position on the field to play. See the strong men who play there successfully, TJ Reid, Lee Chin, Cian Lynch. The point I was trying to make is they are not 20, Harnedy for Cork has played there manfully for years. Niall Mc was Cork best centre forward the past 20 years. The guy was a beast. I think it was wrong to play Barrett there at 20.

Centre back, if a great reader of the play, is not as physical as centre forward. Also Joyce is a rangy, stronger then he looks player who dominated under age. I had much fewer concerns for him at 6 then Barrett at 11.

I was originally replying to Dagda saying Kingston did well bringing young players through. I was challenging that.
 
I said during the winter that defeat to anyone bar Limerick in this years championship and we would have to deem the year a failure and so it was.

The game yesterday turned on so many little failings that have dogged us with a while but that have probably being overlooked given the major issues we have had regarding workrate and style of play in recent years.

I thought our workrate yesterday was still decent and the lads kept going to the bitter end. That's a marked difference from recent years when the team used just capitulate when things got tough. Our style of play still hasn't been properly ironed out. This is solely management's fault. The tippy tappy rubbish is so ingrained in our lads that even when going long you can see they are still not comfortable doing it. The sight of Tim and Connolly competing 5 on 2 or 2 on 1 inside yesterday after chasing a bad ball with support slow to arrive was very frustrating and indicative of a set up that still wasn't all reading of the same gameplan. Of course this should have been trialled during the league and wasn't and left us falling between 2 stools come campionship.

The first place to start is the first 10 seconds and that terrible mistake from Patrick Collins. Collins is a decent keeper but I'd be sceptical that he is of inter county standard. I and a few others here have been questioning having both Collins brothers on the panel going back since the start of last season. I think Patrick doesn't make enough saves and often makes wrong decisions when in possession. How many times was he hooked or blocked in this years league or championship? He got swallowed up down the pairc by Limerick and instead of handpassing or kicking the ball over the sideline he just overcarried it and conceded a free. I don't think he learns from mistakes. Both goals yesterday should have been comfortably stopped and the decision to lump a high ball down on Jack O’Connor at the end just beggar's belief but is in keeping with his questionable decision making. Also if Collins isn't making saves in games he's obviously not doing it in training which is probably giving our forward line a false sense of what it takes to beat a top quality goalkeeper. I hate being so critical of a guy who obviously gives so much time for the cause but it's a persistent problem for us.

I'd love to see Deccie Dalton get a trial in goal. How Cathal Hickey never got a run in there is beyond me but that ship has probably sailed now at his age. Davis might be worth a try. All I know is I'd like to see 2 keepers from outside the same household fighting for the position.

The next glaring issue yesterday was our wide count, misses goal chances and 2 balls off the post. This is another ongoing issue. We are consistently missing big chances. I wonder, in training was there so much time spent getting formation and style of play right that we neglected the basics of spending enough time on shooting? It's one thing hitting a bad wide under pressure but some of the misses yesterday an average club player would have scored them.

The final turning point for me yesterday was the play where Tim caught a massive ball layed it off to Jack O Connor who proceeds to take such a wide slow swing he could have been blocked from Loughrea, the ball then goes out for a Cork sideline where Naill O Leary rushes a sideline that gets cut out and Galway score from it and begin a little rally which ultimately finished us. That play, summed up the composure we are lacking.

The sideline didn't cover themselves in glory either. How Harnedy was left on that long while both Tim and Connolly were subbed was bizarre. Then we take off all our big men and still start hammering high ball into our small forwards.

For all those faults we were still only beaten by a point, although the game was of a poor standard overall I felt.

Special mention to Ciaran Joyce. Best player on the field in my opinion. I hope he is not overlooked when it comes to young hurler of the year. I know young Hayes from Clare, Butler from Kilkenny and O Neill from Limerick are going well but Joyce has been a colossus at center back. An absolute gem of a player.

Damien Cahalane, Robbie O Flynn, Luke Meade and Alan Cadogan (who I questioned here the other night and proved me wrong) were all very good I felt.

I'm hoping for a complete change of management in the coming month. Fingers crossed Pat Ryan is the new man in and he brings Wayne Sherlock with him. But who knows currently.
Excellent points as always Vlad, new mgmt, talents like Joyce and Connelly a year older, young guns, Roches/ Power coming through.. o flynn, o mahony, fitz, coleman hopefully improving, gives me hope
 
Collins: definitely not a match he'll remember with any relish. He let in soft goals and his puck outs weren't great. Might not get any other starting championship game.

O Leary: did OK without any major blunders.

Downey: popped up in May forward positions. I prefer defenders to defend. Will definitely be a better player in the coming years when he fills out a little more.

Cahalane: showed great character again this season,never knows when he's beaten. Much maligned by the wristy hurler brigade but I think he brings necessary aggression to our defence

Joyce: he should be chuffed with his year. Did well in all his games and the more he plays at CB the more assured he'll be.

Coleman: how to solve a problem like Maria? Lovely hurler, some great touches but overplays the ball as times. As I said before I like defenders who can defend. He is poor at that. A bit like TAA at Liverpool, great going forward but a nightmare when he has to defend.

Fitzgibbon: Cork love players like him but I doubt other teams would start him. Another who flatters when he has the ball but without it he can't impose himself on the game.

Made: certainly he buzzes around and gets in the odd tackle but he is not a replacement for Cooper. IMO we lack toughness around the middle.

O Flynn: he probably had his best season yet but disappears for stretches of the game when we need the scoreboard to be ticking over.

Lehane: same story again. When he is given spaces by weaker teams he can be devastating but against a defender who sticks to him all his ability drys up and he seems to disappear from the pitch.

Harnedy: never got going at all yesterday. He could have played his last match for the rebels. Last week the ground was rock hard and the could have effects his leg joints. Maybe yesterday caught up with him on that score. He's after been through the wars over the years, could be telling on him now.

Kingston: took his goal well but has a frustrating way of running into trouble. Another player who is not seen for lengthy periods.

Connelly: started well, tireless effort but IMO needed to take his pt early on and that might have settled him up he should be pleased how the season when for him.

O Mahony: he has a future in the forward line but I didn't think it on the sides. For me he is in the centre either CF or FF.

Special mention to Hoggy, probably the best free taker I have ever seen and in an age when free taking is essential it's madness not to start him. More than likely he won't be back for another season but we have been blessed to have witnessed his skill.

Overall a disappointing finish to a mediocre year. I can't understand why we take the ball into tackles when we haven't the strength to break them. It seems to be a failure year in year out, not any to win in the air or enough dirty ball and when we have it a failure to protect it.
Great points
 
Hey lads, for me centre forward is the hardest position on the field to play. See the strong men who play there successfully, TJ Reid, Lee Chin, Cian Lynch. The point I was trying to make is they are not 20, Harnedy for Cork has played there manfully for years. Niall Mc was Cork best centre forward the past 20 years. The guy was a beast. I think it was wrong to play Barrett there at 20.

Centre back, if a great reader of the play, is not as physical as centre forward. Also Joyce is a rangy, stronger then he looks player who dominated under age. I had much fewer concerns for him at 6 then Barrett at 11.

I was originally replying to Dagda saying Kingston did well bringing young players through. I was challenging that.
That's just rubbish.
 
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