Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Corkfan82]

That's just rubbish.

WTF is your problem today lad?

 

[The Dagda]

Colman out of the backs, Mellerick to replace him. Let backs be backs.
Its the front 8 and especially midfield is the real problem. No replacement found for Cooper, no bite in the forwards or midfield.
For me Meade, Robbie Flynn, Connolly all deserve a place, O Connell will be in the mix, would expect O Mahony to feature as well.
All able to fight and play. Leaves four slots to fill in the front 8. Leaves 3 slots, would hope the Roche's etc would put their hands up for places.

 

[The Dagda]

WTF is your problem today lad?

6 is just as if not more demanding then centre forward . You're were talking bollox, got called on it and then doubled down with horseshit about 11 being more physically demanding then 6. A 19 year old six was fine but a 20 year old 11 was unfair from the manager.

 

[Thistlecrack]

An inside forward above all else needs to be able to score points. The Tim experiment was a fun one but surely on the 40 or midfield is where he should be played in the future.

 

[The Dagda]

An inside forward above all else needs to be able to score points. The Tim experiment was a fun one but surely on the 40 or midfield is where he should be played in the future.

It really felt like he was being bullied inside which was really disappointing and most of the time that was in one on ones. Id love to have a big full forward who can score but I don't think he's it. I'd agree with you on pushing him out because he has some nice linking play.

 

[Corkfan82]

6 is just as if not more demanding then centre forward . You're were talking bollox, got called on it and then doubled down with horseshit about 11 being more physically demanding then 6. A 19 year old six was fine but a 20 year old 11 was unfair from the manager.

I disagree with you about 6 vs 11, and about Kingston bringing young players through well. Its ok the disagree, no need to include Rubbish and Bollox, just make your points

 

[CaptainSensible]

Hey lads, for me centre forward is the hardest position on the field to play. See the strong men who play there successfully, TJ Reid, Lee Chin, Cian Lynch. The point I was trying to make is they are not 20, Harnedy for Cork has played there manfully for years. Niall Mc was Cork best centre forward the past 20 years. The guy was a beast. I think it was wrong to play Barrett there at 20.

Centre back, if a great reader of the play, is not as physical as centre forward. Also Joyce is a rangy, stronger then he looks player who dominated under age. I had much fewer concerns for him at 6 then Barrett at 11.

I was originally replying to Dagda saying Kingston did well bringing young players through. I was challenging that.

I think Kyle Hayes was 19 when he won man of the match in the all-Ireland final at 11. The position was subsequently filled by Lynch when he was 21/22. The role of centre forward has changed from 10 years ago, in many cases they are given license to roam as opposed to being a target man (like Niall Mac), this is more how Lynch plays the position or how about Tony Kelly when he plays there, he pops up all over the place.

A lot has to do with puck out strategy and as Cork generally don't belt it down the middle of the pitch (you can argue they should and pick a bigger player, but that is for another day) than I think he wasn't picked there to be a target man thus negating some of your arguments. In hindsight it didn't suit him or maybe he wasn't given long enough to grow into the role, but saying it was a mistake or not fair to try him out there does a disservice to the player himself more than anything else, I'm sure he was delighted at the time to be picked there.

 

[Thistlecrack]

It really felt like he was being bullied inside which was really disappointing and most of the time that was in one on ones. Id love to have a big full forward who can score but I don't think he's it. I'd agree with you on pushing him out because he has some nice linking play.

Connolly would be the obvious choice of current options. Has the physicality and often welcomes it. Enough pace to manage too and his scoring ability has not been used properly. This idea of him simply being a poacher needs to be gotten rid of, and maybe he needs to hear it himself. He'll learn quickly from this year and I hope he's the focal guy next year.

I think we could be using Robbie O Flynn better too although he seems to be needed on the wing as well from a ball winning point of view.

 

[The Dagda]

I disagree with you about 6 vs 11, and about Kingston bringing young players through well. Its ok the disagree, no need to include Rubbish and Bollox, just make your points

Hey, if you don't want to be called on it don't reply to my posts. I can name just as many monsters at 6 if not more. As well as that 11 is just a number. The forwards rotate way more then the backs. It's a nonsense to suggest that Barrett was left as a static 11, he was inside and in the corners as well. He got a chance, he's a bit light and it didn't work out for him. Hopefully it will work out better next year.

Nearly half that team has been introduced by Kingston as a youngster. His own kid, Colman, Fitzgibbon, Meade? Connolly, Barrett, Joyce, O Connell There's probably more I'm missing. He also has more on the subs and in the squad getting a taste of the pace in training.

Who in your opinion are the youngsters who you would have played yesterday that he didn't give a chance to? You can fault Kingston for a lot of things but he has blooded more Cork youth then any manager since JBM

 

[Red Rebel 1]

I said during the winter that defeat to anyone bar Limerick in this years championship and we would have to deem the year a failure and so it was.

The game yesterday turned on so many little failings that have dogged us with a while but that have probably being overlooked given the major issues we have had regarding workrate and style of play in recent years.

I thought our workrate yesterday was still decent and the lads kept going to the bitter end. That's a marked difference from recent years when the team used just capitulate when things got tough. Our style of play still hasn't been properly ironed out. This is solely management's fault. The tippy tappy rubbish is so ingrained in our lads that even when going long you can see they are still not comfortable doing it. The sight of Tim and Connolly competing 5 on 2 or 2 on 1 inside yesterday after chasing a bad ball with support slow to arrive was very frustrating and indicative of a set up that still wasn't all reading of the same gameplan. Of course this should have been trialled during the league and wasn't and left us falling between 2 stools come campionship.

The first place to start is the first 10 seconds and that terrible mistake from Patrick Collins. Collins is a decent keeper but I'd be sceptical that he is of inter county standard. I and a few others here have been questioning having both Collins brothers on the panel going back since the start of last season. I think Patrick doesn't make enough saves and often makes wrong decisions when in possession. How many times was he hooked or blocked in this years league or championship? He got swallowed up down the pairc by Limerick and instead of handpassing or kicking the ball over the sideline he just overcarried it and conceded a free. I don't think he learns from mistakes. Both goals yesterday should have been comfortably stopped and the decision to lump a high ball down on Jack O’Connor at the end just beggar's belief but is in keeping with his questionable decision making. Also if Collins isn't making saves in games he's obviously not doing it in training which is probably giving our forward line a false sense of what it takes to beat a top quality goalkeeper. I hate being so critical of a guy who obviously gives so much time for the cause but it's a persistent problem for us.

I'd love to see Deccie Dalton get a trial in goal. How Cathal Hickey never got a run in there is beyond me but that ship has probably sailed now at his age. Davis might be worth a try. All I know is I'd like to see 2 keepers from outside the same household fighting for the position.

The next glaring issue yesterday was our wide count, misses goal chances and 2 balls off the post. This is another ongoing issue. We are consistently missing big chances. I wonder, in training was there so much time spent getting formation and style of play right that we neglected the basics of spending enough time on shooting? It's one thing hitting a bad wide under pressure but some of the misses yesterday an average club player would have scored them.

The final turning point for me yesterday was the play where Tim caught a massive ball layed it off to Jack O Connor who proceeds to take such a wide slow swing he could have been blocked from Loughrea, the ball then goes out for a Cork sideline where Naill O Leary rushes a sideline that gets cut out and Galway score from it and begin a little rally which ultimately finished us. That play, summed up the composure we are lacking.

The sideline didn't cover themselves in glory either. How Harnedy was left on that long while both Tim and Connolly were subbed was bizarre. Then we take off all our big men and still start hammering high ball into our small forwards.

For all those faults we were still only beaten by a point, although the game was of a poor standard overall I felt.

Special mention to Ciaran Joyce. Best player on the field in my opinion. I hope he is not overlooked when it comes to young hurler of the year. I know young Hayes from Clare, Butler from Kilkenny and O Neill from Limerick are going well but Joyce has been a colossus at center back. An absolute gem of a player.

Damien Cahalane, Robbie O Flynn, Luke Meade and Alan Cadogan (who I questioned here the other night and proved me wrong) were all very good I felt.

I'm hoping for a complete change of management in the coming month. Fingers crossed Pat Ryan is the new man in and he brings Wayne Sherlock with him. But who knows currently.

Excellent analysis Vlad. Dalton will be a forward only at intercounty level though, his days in goals are done I'd say.