Should Ireland go nuclear?

Should Ireland go nuclear?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 84.2%
  • No

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Total voters
    19
One interesting
How is hydrogen not an energy source?
No one said we are there yet but it's in the pipeline(pardon the pun).
The future is off shore wind farms on a massive scale and not just 1 hydrogen plant but 1 for each wind farm.
We already have an unlimited energy source we haven't really tapped. It's an energy source that's green and absolutely massive. Enough to supply all our energy needs and all the hydrogen plants we can make.

We're starting to hit the profit margin where producing it makes economic sense. Time to get on the crest instead of the wake.
It's not an energy source, it's energy storage, the same as batteries, pumped hydro, compressed air, etc...


You need an energy source for creating the hydrogen in the first place, you think wind is the solution for Ireland, I think a combination of wind and nuclear would be significantly better.

I am doing some in depth stuff on this for work at the moment, the scaling challenges of wind are next on the research list, but there is good research existing that shows its much more limited for the UK at least. I've not seen details of limits or potential for Ireland
 
Very interesting, thanks for posting this.
One interesting

It's not an energy source, it's energy storage, the same as batteries, pumped hydro, compressed air, etc...


You need an energy source for creating the hydrogen in the first place, you think wind is the solution for Ireland, I think a combination of wind and nuclear would be significantly better.

I am doing some in depth stuff on this for work at the moment, the scaling challenges of wind are next on the research list, but there is good research existing that shows its much more limited for the UK at least. I've not seen details of limits or potential for Ireland
I'm not sure what you mean by this?
 
Very interesting, thanks for posting this.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?
1. Finding enough economically viable sites. I don't believe there's decent ways of getting windmills working beyond the continental shelf today (open to correction on that). Ireland has a huge continental shelf, about 300km, but it's still finite and not really of enormous amounts of help for the rest of Europe with a way of exporting vast amounts of energy. Hydrogen export may be a huge business in Ireland yet.
2. Mitigating short term variability, wind drops or increases quickly, the grid operator has to be able to respond by bringing other capacity online or shedding generation. A massive problem once it's the main source of energy for literally everything.
3. Seasonal variability, consistently overproducing for some times of the year and constantly struggling to meet demand at others.


None of that is priced into the current price of wind
 
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1. Finding enough economically viable sites. I don't believe there's decent ways of getting windmills working beyond the continental shelf today (open to correction on that). Ireland has a huge continental shelf, about 300km, but it's still finite and not really of enormous amounts of help for the rest of Europe with a way of exporting vast amounts of energy. Hydrogen export may be a huge business in Ireland yet.
2. Mitigating short term variability, wind drops or increases quickly, the grid operator has to be able to respond by bringing other capacity online or shedding generation. A massive problem once it's the main source of energy for literally everything.
3. Seasonal variability, consistently overproducing for some times of the year and constantly struggling to meet demand at others.


None of that is priced into the current price of wind
1. “Ireland, quite simply, has one of the best offshore renewable energy resources anywhere in the world. We have a sea area of approximately 900,000 km2 which at over 10 times the size of our landmass, is one of the largest seabed territories in Europe. We also have some of the highest wind resource you’ll find anywhere on the globe.

“The long-term potential is in the region of 75 gigawatts (GW) of offshore wind power to be realised on the west coast.”
https://www.energyireland.ie/tapping-into-irelands-offshore-wind-potential-calls-for-change/

2. Which is why hydrogen production will be so important. Every day the turbines turn is a day you produce surplus hydrogen. Surplus hydrogen that can be used on calm days to generate electricity.

3. Won't we be connected eventually to a European grid? Surplus energy is sold to Europe and in times of deficit we import from Europe. https://www.eirgridgroup.com/the-grid/projects/celtic-interconnector/the-project/
A cross Europe policy with each country playing to it strengths to generate electricity. Summertime a peak period for solar generation and winter for wind. Also there are already existing nuclear plants in France.
France derives about 70% of its electricity from nuclear energy. Not wanting to be naïve or anything but surely that is the plan rather then all nations hiding in a Develara style energy protectionist bubble?
 
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1. “Ireland, quite simply, has one of the best offshore renewable energy resources anywhere in the world. We have a sea area of approximately 900,000 km2 which at over 10 times the size of our landmass, is one of the largest seabed territories in Europe. We also have some of the highest wind resource you’ll find anywhere on the globe.

“The long-term potential is in the region of 75 gigawatts (GW) of offshore wind power to be realised on the west coast.”
https://www.energyireland.ie/tapping-into-irelands-offshore-wind-potential-calls-for-change/

2. Which is why hydrogen production will be so important. Every day the turbines turn is a day you produce surplus hydrogen. Surplus hydrogen that can be used on calm days to generate electricity.

3. Won't we be connected eventually to a European grid? Surplus energy is sold to Europe and in times of deficit we import from Europe. https://www.eirgridgroup.com/the-grid/projects/celtic-interconnector/the-project/
A cross Europe policy with each country playing to it strengths to generate electricity. Summertime a peak period for solar generation and winter for wind. Also there are already existing nuclear plants in France.
France derives about 70% of its electricity from nuclear energy. Not wanting to be naïve or anything but surely that is the plan rather then all nations hiding in a Develara style energy protectionist bubble?
"If built, the Celtic Interconnector will bring many benefits for Ireland, France and the EU. It will:

allow 700 MW (megawatts) of electricity to move between the countries. (This is equal to supplying power to around 450,000 homes.),"

Long way to go before you can export that 75 GW. And a long way to go before hydrogen is commercially ready for Ireland.

I don't disagree that Ireland has huge wind potential.
 
"If built, the Celtic Interconnector will bring many benefits for Ireland, France and the EU. It will:

allow 700 MW (megawatts) of electricity to move between the countries. (This is equal to supplying power to around 450,000 homes.),"

Long way to go before you can export that 75 GW. And a long way to go before hydrogen is commercially ready for Ireland.

I don't disagree that Ireland has huge wind potential.
Which is where hydrogen production comes in. I disagree that it is a long way to go before hydrogen is commercially ready for Ireland.
https://eih2.ie/
From little acorns grow big trees. When you have that kind of surplus of energy hydrogen production becomes economically viable and hydrogen is going to be big across a myriad of sectors nationally and internationally.
The interconnector will help with shortfalls, also we will have two more interconnectors already off the island which carry a combined 1000 MW
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62677534

HBB is very dismissive of the problems associated with the safe storage of nuclear waste.

I don't think he is right. Read the link. One of many such links that you can read, from reputable sources.

Also, when the cost of nuclear power stations is discussed, invariably the only costs referred are the construction and operational costs. The cost of dismantling nuclear power stations, along with the cost of the almost indefinite storage of some of the radioactive waste produced, makes nuclear prohibitive.

The UK is spending billions every year dismantling old nuclear stations. These costs are funded by taxation - they are not added onto the electricity bill.

It is very simplistic to dismiss all criticism of nuclear power by referring to long haired hippies who believe that nuclear stations pose a massive health risk to us all - they don't, when properly run & maintained. I think they all are, at this stage. But the true economics of them is highly questionable.
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62677534

HBB is very dismissive of the problems associated with the safe storage of nuclear waste.

I don't think he is right. Read the link. One of many such links that you can read, from reputable sources.

Also, when the cost of nuclear power stations is discussed, invariably the only costs referred are the construction and operational costs. The cost of dismantling nuclear power stations, along with the cost of the almost indefinite storage of some of the radioactive waste produced, makes nuclear prohibitive.

The UK is spending billions every year dismantling old nuclear stations. These costs are funded by taxation - they are not added onto the electricity bill.

It is very simplistic to dismiss all criticism of nuclear power by referring to long haired hippies who believe that nuclear stations pose a massive health risk to us all - they don't, when properly run & maintained. I think they all are, at this stage. But the true economics of them is highly questionable.
I don't. I believe it's well meaning concerns by people who don't understand the problem.

From that article

"It is both highly lethal and entirely safe.
Lethal, because this material is intensely radioactive; safe, because it sits beneath 8m of water, a very effective barrier against radiation."
 
But the water heats up because of the radioactivity and has to be replaced every so often. But the water can't be just dumped - it becomes radioactive itself, so has to be stored safely for a long time.
The really dangerous stuff has to be stored in massively thick lead-lined concrete tanks for several thousands of years. Currently, in the UK, these tanks are stored in underground vaults, but mine shafts, in geologically stables areas, will probably be used at some stage in the future.

This all costs serious money. And, on top of that, the cost of dismantling a nuclear power plant costs billions, at the end of their life cycle.

These costs are not factored in to the price that the consumer pays for the electricity produced by nuclear stations.

Maybe fusion will become the answer - little or no radioactive waste. But that always seems to be 15 years away.

Perhaps hydrogen is the long term solution. Use wind power to produce it and store the hydrogen in liquified format - like LNG ships do with methane. Use the hydrogen for power stations and transport vehicles. Also use it to replace methane in the gas grids. It's a long term solution and will cost a fortune. But it maybe the only option.

Already, British Gas (or whatever they are called now) are experimenting with hydrogen in a couple of small isolated gas grids. Results to date indicate that it is quite easy to convert existing gas appliances to using hydrogen. Much the same process as the changeover from town gas to natural gas (methane) a few decades ago.

All this could change again if batteries could be made vastly more efficient, lighter and cheaper than they are now. Which would solve the problem of intermittent wind power & solar power switching off during darkness.

It's an interesting debate. Difficult to get impartial assessments of the various options.
 
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