Russia's unjustifiable war of aggression in Ukraine

What's the alternative to Ukraine defending itself and the West helping it to do so?

Putin is a dangerous psychopath. Give him another slice of Ukraine now to add to Crimea and he'll be back for more before long. He has stated his intention to recreate the Soviet Union.

What kind of precedent do you set if you allow that to happen? Rewarding the intentional and indiscriminate bombing of civilians, schools and hospitals. Rewarding rape, torture and assorted war crimes. Rewarding lies, propaganda and repression of human rights and democracy. Rewarding jailing and murdering your political opponents. Rewarding the deliberate thwarting of democracy in other countries.

And 'but Iraq' is not the answer, m8.

Western Leaders like Leo are beginning to bolster domestic support for Ua.

Putin made his intentions perfectly clear in his infamous speech at the 2007 Munich Conference. He began to activate his plans and the West did nothing. History repeated itself when appeasement failed in the 1930's. Hence Leo's appeasement remarks.

The Western World is finally recognising the threat from Ru & PRC - The visit by the Japanese Leader to Ua (While Xi was supporting Putin in Moscow) is a very clear statement that democracies finally understand the huge threat.


It's a shame that weaponry has been drip fed up to now but at last we are seeing a big effort to arm Ua properly. The length of this war will be decided by the speed of supply of weaponry to Ua.

TG we won't hear any more idiot comments from Macron and Scholz - these guys have fallen into line and will perform as required, going forward.


The embarrassing climb down from DeSantis is proof positive of continued bipartisan support from Uncle Sam.

The Orcs are going to get absolutely smashed and they know it's coming.
 
Do our trolls seem tired to you? Like they are just phoning it in at this point? Talking about dead WW2 nationalists and toppling statues and not talking about what Russia wants to do to Ukraine? I guess that Russia has finally run out of real excuses for the invasion.

What would have happened if Hitler had been prevented from taking the Sudetenland, that event being a perfect parallel to the current one? While he claimed at the time that he was going to stop there, everyone already knew that he had future plans and what they were. Had the world backed the Czechs against Germany, would the War have happened? Probably not. And simply speaking, that's why Russia needs to be stopped now. We've seen this movie before.

If you ever get bored, look up "Russian Laundromat". It's about an attempt by Russian oligarchs a few years ago to launder 20 to 60 billion dollars taken from Russia through various Western banks and economic institutions (such as real estate companies). After the Soviet Union collapsed, billions in liquid assets disappeared from the defunct Communist party. (And there was a rash of current and former Communist Party treasurers falling out of windows by accident at that time) In subsequent years billions more disappeared from Russia. The money still flows out. Much of this becomes the money seized or frozen in the various Western sanctions on Putin. I have asked before (to no avail) how it is that a country where 30 years ago there was no private property at all should now have so many billionaires. And why this country, which 30 years ago claimed that it was not only a military great power but an economic great power should have such a relatively small economy today. Russia is run by warlords who are not interested in developing the country. And as Hitler did, they want to take over a neighboring country in order to loot it. It's as simple as that.
 
Do our trolls seem tired to you? Like they are just phoning it in at this point? Talking about dead WW2 nationalists and toppling statues and not talking about what Russia wants to do to Ukraine? I guess that Russia has finally run out of real excuses for the invasion.

What would have happened if Hitler had been prevented from taking the Sudetenland, that event being a perfect parallel to the current one? While he claimed at the time that he was going to stop there, everyone already knew that he had future plans and what they were. Had the world backed the Czechs against Germany, would the War have happened? Probably not. And simply speaking, that's why Russia needs to be stopped now. We've seen this movie before.

If you ever get bored, look up "Russian Laundromat". It's about an attempt by Russian oligarchs a few years ago to launder 20 to 60 billion dollars taken from Russia through various Western banks and economic institutions (such as real estate companies). After the Soviet Union collapsed, billions in liquid assets disappeared from the defunct Communist party. (And there was a rash of current and former Communist Party treasurers falling out of windows by accident at that time) In subsequent years billions more disappeared from Russia. The money still flows out. Much of this becomes the money seized or frozen in the various Western sanctions on Putin. I have asked before (to no avail) how it is that a country where 30 years ago there was no private property at all should now have so many billionaires. And why this country, which 30 years ago claimed that it was not only a military great power but an economic great power should have such a relatively small economy today. Russia is run by warlords who are not interested in developing the country. And as Hitler did, they want to take over a neighboring country in order to loot it. It's as simple as that.
You want to talk about Hitler and the Nazis how about US ally Israel illegally occupies the Golan Heights from Syria and that Anerica's ally is a rogue nation killing Arabs and bombing civilian infrastructure and you want to talk about Russian aggression. Let's talk about how the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Pres Putin but not for Bush and Sir Blair and if you want to talk about a disaster how about Northern Ireland is just like Lebanon and Iraq all failed polities with corruption, sectarianism and absent of government. The western powers have certainly made a hames of it.
 
Do our trolls seem tired to you? Like they are just phoning it in at this point? Talking about dead WW2 nationalists and toppling statues and not talking about what Russia wants to do to Ukraine? I guess that Russia has finally run out of real excuses for the invasion.

What would have happened if Hitler had been prevented from taking the Sudetenland, that event being a perfect parallel to the current one? While he claimed at the time that he was going to stop there, everyone already knew that he had future plans and what they were. Had the world backed the Czechs against Germany, would the War have happened? Probably not. And simply speaking, that's why Russia needs to be stopped now. We've seen this movie before.

If you ever get bored, look up "Russian Laundromat". It's about an attempt by Russian oligarchs a few years ago to launder 20 to 60 billion dollars taken from Russia through various Western banks and economic institutions (such as real estate companies). After the Soviet Union collapsed, billions in liquid assets disappeared from the defunct Communist party. (And there was a rash of current and former Communist Party treasurers falling out of windows by accident at that time) In subsequent years billions more disappeared from Russia. The money still flows out. Much of this becomes the money seized or frozen in the various Western sanctions on Putin. I have asked before (to no avail) how it is that a country where 30 years ago there was no private property at all should now have so many billionaires. And why this country, which 30 years ago claimed that it was not only a military great power but an economic great power should have such a relatively small economy today. Russia is run by warlords who are not interested in developing the country. And as Hitler did, they want to take over a neighboring country in order to loot it. It's as simple as that.
Excellent Post Doc.

And Putin made his intentions very clear in 2007.

It's doesn't look as if Kingsilkbeard is a bot or farm troll so he's either an imbecile or a low grade troll (probably a bit of both)

However life is far too short to entertain or debate with these types of individual. We somehow managed to elect two low lives - Wallace & Daly to the EP and we can see the reputational damage they are causing to our country.


However most sensible people understand that Putin Apologists are horrible individuals without moral compass - You cannot change that level of stupidity and ignorance so it's best to ignore them.
 
You want to talk about Hitler and the Nazis how about US ally Israel illegally occupies the Golan Heights from Syria and that Anerica's ally is a rogue nation killing Arabs and bombing civilian infrastructure and you want to talk about Russian aggression. Let's talk about how the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Pres Putin but not for Bush and Sir Blair and if you want to talk about a disaster how about Northern Ireland is just like Lebanon and Iraq all failed polities with corruption, sectarianism and absent of government. The western powers have certainly made a hames of it.
It's "what about" not "how about"..........Jesus lad you can't even do that properly!
 
Excellent Post Doc.

And Putin made his intentions very clear in 2007.

It's doesn't look as if Kingsilkbeard is a bot or farm troll so he's either an imbecile or a low grade troll (probably a bit of both)

However life is far too short to entertain or debate with these types of individual. We somehow managed to elect two low lives - Wallace & Daly to the EP and we can see the reputational damage they are causing to our country.


However most sensible people understand that Putin Apologists are horrible individuals without moral compass - You cannot change that level of stupidity and ignorance so it's best to ignore them.
I think that whataboutism in a chat room is meant to be a pwn where someone is supposedly caught out as a hypocrite. This, of course, is intended to derail the discussion.

It blows up in the poster’s face, because another message (here) is that if the West can engage in atrocities, then Russia should be allowed to do it without comment as well. Whataboutism isn’t a claim of morality. It’s a claim of amorality.

Being a very old leftist myself, and one who’s been interested in Russia for the last fifty years or so, I’m struck that this amorality, masking itself as realpolitik, has become the state of Russia after the fall of Communism. Despite all of the horrors of Bolshevism, there used to be a large number of people who were really serious about positive and progressive change. How many were there?

A little known statistic is that after the death of Stalin, then again under perestroika, and then again about 20 years ago, about four to five million people were formally “rehabilitated” by the government, meaning that their imprisonments and deaths sentences were cleared as having been unjust and illegal. Some of these people were in fact monsters in the security services, but the vast majority were simply innocent. These were people who had to be killed in order for the government to suppress all possible political dissent. Four million people.

Realpolitik is something that must be borne in mind, of course. But it is not an ethic of rule, of culture, unless the rulers are solely out for their own personal power. In this regard, Russia is morally bankrupt. This is why they are at war. They have been, so far, unable to overcome their bloody past.
 
What's the alternative to Ukraine defending itself and the West helping it to do so?

Putin is a dangerous psychopath. Give him another slice of Ukraine now to add to Crimea and he'll be back for more before long. He has stated his intention to recreate the Soviet Union.

What kind of precedent do you set if you allow that to happen? Rewarding the intentional and indiscriminate bombing of civilians, schools and hospitals. Rewarding rape, torture and assorted war crimes. Rewarding lies, propaganda and repression of human rights and democracy. Rewarding jailing and murdering your political opponents. Rewarding the deliberate thwarting of democracy in other countries.

And 'but Iraq' is not the answer, m8.
Spot on. Anyone who thinks Ukraine should cede an inch to that murderous bastard is completely and utterly wrong


You give guys like Putin that inch and we know what happens. Or at least if you did third year history in school, you should
 
What happens in America will dictate how long this war continues. If support wanes a peace deal is sure to be sought in the background.
True, in that the US is providing most of the support. But two things. I don’t think the wingnuts are going to take the presidency in the next election. There’s too few of them. The Dems and the moderate Republicans are pro-Ukraine.

The second thing (and call me a cynic) is that Ukraine is the best war the US has right now. And we always seem to need one.
 
I think that whataboutism in a chat room is meant to be a pwn where someone is supposedly caught out as a hypocrite. This, of course, is intended to derail the discussion.

It blows up in the poster’s face, because another message (here) is that if the West can engage in atrocities, then Russia should be allowed to do it without comment as well. Whataboutism isn’t a claim of morality. It’s a claim of amorality.

Being a very old leftist myself, and one who’s been interested in Russia for the last fifty years or so, I’m struck that this amorality, masking itself as realpolitik, has become the state of Russia after the fall of Communism. Despite all of the horrors of Bolshevism, there used to be a large number of people who were really serious about positive and progressive change. How many were there?

A little known statistic is that after the death of Stalin, then again under perestroika, and then again about 20 years ago, about four to five million people were formally “rehabilitated” by the government, meaning that their imprisonments and deaths sentences were cleared as having been unjust and illegal. Some of these people were in fact monsters in the security services, but the vast majority were simply innocent. These were people who had to be killed in order for the government to suppress all possible political dissent. Four million people.

Realpolitik is something that must be borne in mind, of course. But it is not an ethic of rule, of culture, unless the rulers are solely out for their own personal power. In this regard, Russia is morally bankrupt. This is why they are at war. They have been, so far, unable to overcome their bloody past.
Great post again Doc.

I saw a great interview on Radio Times with the moderate Tory MP Tobias Elwood (former army officer)

He presented a really good take on Russia 's historical imperialism and the necessity for the Autocratic Dictator States to undermine the democratic model.

He referred to weaponising energy and food. Expanding influence by economic means (belt & road)

He suggested a NATO Light approach is needed in the Indo Pacific region.

Hopefully we'll see the end of Trumpism and isolationist ideology by the House Ultras. It's vital for the West
 
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