Fundraiser for Statue Of Michael Collins in Patrick’s Street

Sounds pretty fuckin stupid going into bandit country bristling with enemies after a skin full.

He went into "bandit country" with an eye to meeting up with enemies to talk of possibilities of peace. Couldn't exactly do that up in Dublin, or even in Cork City which had been cleared of enemies at that stage.

He went with an armoured car and a detachment of troops and as it happened had the enemy at the engagement pretty well outgunned - especially had the machine gun not "jammed". Travelling in an open touring car probably wasn't the wisest move at the time but he wanted/needed to meet with and talk with his former comrades now enemies, or in O'Donnoghue's case "neutral" but pro-IRA.

Relaxing his guard in his home village and local was perhaps understandable. Buying rounds for the crowd was the kind of thing he did. Imbibing, and then over-imbibing himself, was reckless certainly. But that's the nature of taking a pint, it can lower your inhibitions about taking another one, and it certainly didn't make him a stupid person.
 
And that's the point. If anything was to be had from the negotiations it would have taken a keen negotiating mind. Lloyd George had described dealing with Dev as like trying to pick up quicksilver with a fork. Dev knew there was likely to be some hard bargaining by the british and a 32 county republic was very unlikely to be acceded to - so rather than go himself and come back with a partial prize, he sent Collins over as a fall guy knowing it would be highly unlikely that anyone would come back with what Dev wanted.

Collins knew he wasn't the best man for that job. But he was sent, by a cabinet controlled by Dev. And so he did his duty.

As for his war being "under serious pressure" his war was to make Ireland ungovernable by the british, not to expel the british. Thanks to public opinion and british stupidity his campaign in dublin was doing what it set out to do.

Though Dev's ego trying to insist on large scale engagements would have ground it all to a halt had he gotten his way. Stupid enterprises like burning the Customs House in late May 1921, just weeks before the Truce, where over 100 of the Dublin brigade got lifted.
Keen negotiating mind my hole.
They could have got nothing more even if they had sent the most cunning man in Ireland m8.
Even Collins had an idea of this and by God he knew it once they had gone.
Once we accepted a ceasefire that was it and that was in Collins opinion.
 
He went into "bandit country" with an eye to meeting up with enemies to talk of possibilities of peace. Couldn't exactly do that up in Dublin, or even in Cork City which had been cleared of enemies at that stage.

He went with an armoured car and a detachment of troops and as it happened had the enemy at the engagement pretty well outgunned - especially had the machine gun not "jammed". Travelling in an open touring car probably wasn't the wisest move at the time but he wanted/needed to meet with and talk with his former comrades now enemies, or in O'Donnoghue's case "neutral" but pro-IRA.

Relaxing his guard in his home village and local was perhaps understandable. Buying rounds for the crowd was the kind of thing he did. Imbibing, and then over-imbibing himself, was reckless certainly. But that's the nature of taking a pint, it can lower your inhibitions about taking another one, and it certainly didn't make him a stupid person.
Yeah.
He got notions living in Dublin ordering mayhem while cycling around Dublin in a suit.

Meanwhile a proper war was being waged down here which he didn't really have a proper grip on the reality of and of which he had fuck all control of
 
Yeah.
He got notions living in Dublin ordering mayhem while cycling around Dublin in a suit.

Meanwhile a proper war was being waged down here which he didn't really have a proper grip on the reality of and of which he had fuck all control of

The "proper war being waged down here" wasn't a whole lot different than what had been going on around Dublin. Hit and run tactics being used throughout - unsurprising really given the overwhelming numbers, training, and war materiel they were facing against the brits.
 
Keen negotiating mind my hole.
They could have got nothing more even if they had sent the most cunning man in Ireland m8.
Even Collins had an idea of this and by God he knew it once they had gone.
Once we accepted a ceasefire that was it and that was in Collins opinion.

Think you're arguing against yourself here.

Collins knew ever before he went that he was the wrong man to be sent on such a mission. Dev's ego wouldn't have it any other way.
 
This tread is going off on a tangent.
Discussions on the war of independence seems to be taken over the topic.
The purpose of the thread is the erection of a giant statue of the man with a bicycle at the end of it.
A lot of issues such as planning permission
the amount raised
the spending of the money
the payment to the sculptor
the committee expenses
the registration of the fund for Revenue purposes
Arrangements for an audit
Publication of the accounts


There is is a lot there which needs to be addressed.
 
Why on earth would anyone here have the PPS number for members of that committee????
And even if they did, why would they leave themselves open to all kinds of prosecutions by divulging such information to you??
Because there are laws in the country.
Law breakers are prosecuted to maintain order and law in society otherwise we would have chaos.
( I should add that sometimes laws are suspended in the case of murders carried out in the case of the greater cause for a united Ireland)
 
This tread is going off on a tangent.
Discussions on the war of independence seems to be taken over the topic.
The purpose of the thread is the erection of a giant statue of the man with a bicycle at the end of it.
A lot of issues such as planning permission
the amount raised
the spending of the money
the payment to the sculptor
the committee expenses
the registration of the fund for Revenue purposes
Arrangements for an audit
Publication of the accounts


There is is a lot there which needs to be addressed.
Hi Dafy. All of the above list will I'm sure be detailed in due course. I will review when they are available.
Just a bit of advice to the committee.
In view of very little money raised to date I am sure the committee will keep their costs to a minimum.
Committee members coming from Macroom direction could use the bus service to come to meeting in the city.
If the bus service for this area is good enough for people like the Eggman then it should be good enough for the committee members.
 
Because there are laws in the country.
Law breakers are prosecuted to maintain order and law in society otherwise we would have chaos.
( I should add that sometimes laws are suspended in the case of murders carried out in the case of the greater cause for a united Ireland)

Indeed there ARE laws in the country, including GDPR laws. So I'll ask you again, why on earth would anyone here have the PPS number for members of that committee, and even if they did why would they divulge such information to you???????
 
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