Do you believe in miracles?

[gozzy]

Never said it was.

But saying that it was a miracle is putting your faith in something.

Saying that science will at some time in the future explain it is also putting your faith in something.

This is true.

But it's putting faith in a discipline that, when it does eventually explain the phenomenom, will base it's conclusions on reason and verifiable experiment.

Belief in miracles stops the debate right in it's tracks. ie: God did it, end of.

But you are essentially right - belief in the eventual explaination by science is a form of faith but it's based on a pretty sound track record.

 

[corcadorca]

Never said it was.

But saying that it was a miracle is putting your faith in something.

Saying that science will at some time in the future explain it is also putting your faith in something.

Science has a pretty good track record to date, chances are it'll keep explaining more about ourselves and the world.

Religious 'explanations' amount to 'here's something X we don't understand, a bigger something we don't [and never will] understand did it/wants it like that for inscrutable reasons.

There's a fundamental dynamic that is at the root of all this. Now, I'm not trying to condescend. I swear I'm not. But when an atheist is debating with a believer, I think it is impossible to take the argument to a higher plateau than the Santa Claus Plateau.

Fundamentally, it's just not more complex than that. The atheist sees it for the kindly but nonsensical thing it is, and the believer will try to legitimize and validate but ultimately they'll play the Faith Card. And that's the Death Card (to constructive debate, at least).

About as kindly as cancer.

 

[El Beef]

This is true.

But it's putting faith in a discipline that, when it does eventually explain the phenomenom, will base it's conclusions on reason and verifiable experiment.

Belief in miracles stops the debate right in it's tracks. ie: God did it, end of.

But you are essentially right - belief in the eventual explaination by science is a form of faith but it's based on a pretty sound track record.

- Beautifully put.

The sword that cuts cuts deeper than the sword in the mind.

 

[El Beef]

About as kindly as cancer.

- But in terms of telling a child...

 

[Langer Dan]

Nope but I dont believe in vampires eiither.

 

[El Beef]

Nope but I dont believe in vampires eiither.

- Jesus was a vampire. A reverse vampire.

 

[Lee Bushwacker]

I remember overhearing a conversation in Cork years ago between two middle-aged women in which one said the following:
"I'd give my right eye to go to Lourdes."








































She was probably hoping to get it back when she got there! :twisted:

 

[RutlandStreet]

lol My mother in law went years ago. She was getting on but was ok she just got tired easily. Anyway going she was fine, coming back they had to get a wheelchair for her from the plane cos her legs gave out.

Standing family joke for years, the only person going to Lourdes walking and coming back in a wheelchair

 

[El Beef]

Went to Lourdes when I was twelve. All I got was a veruca off a heavily molested rock.

 

[Murdock]

I had to lol a few years back when a load of cripples heading to Lourdes for miracle cures, instead ended up getting poisoned by E. coli from drinking the "holy" water.