Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Jon Hurling]

Coleman should lose his place until he learns to tackle and stops ball watching

if you can stomach watching kellys goal

1 lets fitzgerald walk through him
2 it looks to me like he cant wait to give up chasing and immediately slows the moment fitzgerald fumbles it
3 even so he is perfectly positioned when kelly gets it to hit kelly a belt of a shoulder and stop the whole thing but he has zero interest in that
4 instead of stepping into physical contact he essentially gets out of the way
5 he also makes no effort to hunt after kelly which is why o donoghue has to leave O donnell in a desperate attempt to cut him off making it really easy for kelly to step past him
6 its all over at this stage but even then coleman and downey junior make no effort at all to get back and close down O donnell

I was sitting right by the pitch when Fitzgerald got the ball and as bad as Coleman's defence was, it was criminal that he was marking Fitzgerald for this play. In fact he wasn't the one marking Fitzgerald before this but Fitzgerald saw the opportunity to win a puck out over Coleman and made his way to left half forward.

I know it happens fast but the Cork players need to think fast and no way should Coleman ever be isolated on the wing against any player who is strong in the air. If it means conceding one short and someone drops back to cover 2 v 1 then so be it. This goal could have been prevented before it happened, and of course should still have been prevented as it happened. At this level you should be absolutely tuned in for everything.

Also, for Rodgers goal, Sean O'D had him hooked but last second decided to go for a block. Ultimately they were two soft goals that looked like great goals for Clare.

 

[Jon Hurling]

I was sitting right by the pitch when Fitzgerald got the ball and as bad as Coleman's defence was, it was criminal that he was marking Fitzgerald for this play. In fact he wasn't the one marking Fitzgerald before this but Fitzgerald saw the opportunity to win a puck out over Coleman and made his way to left half forward.

I know it happens fast but the Cork players need to think fast and no way should Coleman ever be isolated on the wing against any player who is strong in the air. If it means conceding one short and someone drops back to cover 2 v 1 then so be it. This goal could have been prevented before it happened, and of course should still have been prevented as it happened. At this level you should be absolutely tuned in for everything.

Also, for Rodgers goal, Sean O'D had him hooked but last second decided to go for a block. Ultimately they were two soft goals that looked like great goals for Clare.

And one last thing, Rob Downey ran half the field to score a goal, and Kyle Hayes gave away a silly penalty v Cork in the round robin v Cork. Both very bad defending too. Ultimately that's just hurling and why it's so great.

 

[North Cork Star]

There is no denying it, the defending for the Tony Kelly goal was shocking and a goal opportunity should never have come of it with all of our numbers back. It has to be one of the main things Pat Ryan and Co. should be focusing on this coming year.

If you look at the scores we conceded in the championship, it is still way too high. We can't win every shootout, as seen in the All Ireland final especially when our forwards weren't going well.

We conceded the following in 2024:

2-25 (31) v Waterford
3-26 (35) v Clare
3-26 (35) v Limerick
1-21 (24) v Tipp (better but Tipp were woeful and gave up after 40 mins)
3-19 (28) v Offaly
0-21 (21) v Dublin (more like it)
0-29 (29) v Limerick
3-29 (38) v Clare

Our average score conceded per game was 2-25 (31).

Limerick's average score conceded over 6 games was 1-21 (24).

Clare's average score conceded over 7 games was 2-23 (29).

Remember we put huge scores against Limerick twice and Clare twice so scoring isn't an issue.

But if we could work on the finer details of our defending, I.e. positioning, tackling, stopping runs, slowing the game down, cynicism, winning the breakdown, workrate in all parts of the pitch, dealing with puckouts etc., and bring our average score conceded to even 28 (ideally 25 or below), it would make a huge difference. Fine margins but it could be the difference.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Oh this thread now, it really is silly season

 

[junior footballer]

Coleman should lose his place until he learns to tackle and stops ball watching

if you can stomach watching kellys goal

1 lets fitzgerald walk through him
2 it looks to me like he cant wait to give up chasing and immediately slows the moment fitzgerald fumbles it
3 even so he is perfectly positioned when kelly gets it to hit kelly a belt of a shoulder and stop the whole thing but he has zero interest in that
4 instead of stepping into physical contact he essentially gets out of the way
5 he also makes no effort to hunt after kelly which is why o donoghue has to leave O donnell in a desperate attempt to cut him off making it really easy for kelly to step past him
6 its all over at this stage but even then coleman and downey junior make no effort at all to get back and close down O donnell

Be careful, you can’t take the name of a stylish wristy cork hurler in vain, the cork hurling man meself will be watching the same clip and blame every other cork defender on the pitch bar Coleman, shur don’t we have to invent a position for hI’m according to some? He is at best an average defender and was cleaned in that final by Fitzgerald in particular at times, you simply can’t have a wing back in the modern age who is so poor in the air and as I have said previously corks defence is 2 defenders away from winning an all Ireland.

 

[red&blue]

There is no denying it, the defending for the Tony Kelly goal was shocking and a goal opportunity should never have come of it with all of our numbers back. It has to be one of the main things Pat Ryan and Co. should be focusing on this coming year.

If you look at the scores we conceded in the championship, it is still way too high. We can't win every shootout, as seen in the All Ireland final especially when our forwards weren't going well.

We conceded the following in 2024:

2-25 (31) v Waterford
3-26 (35) v Clare
3-26 (35) v Limerick
1-21 (24) v Tipp (better but Tipp were woeful and gave up after 40 mins)
3-19 (28) v Offaly
0-21 (21) v Dublin (more like it)
0-29 (29) v Limerick
3-29 (38) v Clare

Our average score conceded per game was 2-25 (31).

Limerick's average score conceded over 6 games was 1-21 (24).

Clare's average score conceded over 7 games was 2-23 (29).

Remember we put huge scores against Limerick twice and Clare twice so scoring isn't an issue.

But if we could work on the finer details of our defending, I.e. positioning, tackling, stopping runs, slowing the game down, cynicism, winning the breakdown, workrate in all parts of the pitch, dealing with puckouts etc., and bring our average score conceded to even 28 (ideally 25 or below), it would make a huge difference. Fine margins but it could be the difference.

Spot on, defenders win you all Irelands, fowards decide by how much

We got so much right against Limerick in the semi final it camouflaged the issues that were there in the games before it and in the final afterwards.

We stumbled on a team and a way of playing but as the final showed we have to mix our game a little more and we have to develop our team play both defensively and in attack

We get them right and we will be very hard to beat

 

[JPM]

Be careful, you can’t take the name of a stylish wristy cork hurler in vain, the cork hurling man meself will be watching the same clip and blame every other cork defender on the pitch bar Coleman, shur don’t we have to invent a position for hI’m according to some? He is at best an average defender and was cleaned in that final by Fitzgerald in particular at times, you simply can’t have a wing back in the modern age who is so poor in the air and as I have said previously corks defence is 2 defenders away from winning an all Ireland.

A half back line that can defend is critical. As I said previously a HB line of CJ, RD and DOlL would be powerful and all are ruthless DEFENDERS. Mark has great skill but can’t and never will be a defender. Where or if he plays is a different question.
We have a fullback and we need to address 2 and 4. NOL had a reasonable year and should remain in contention. Ger M is a natural defender and could possibly do at four. Eoin Roche an Conor O’Callaghan merit another look and I think T Will will be our 2 in the future but probably not in 25. I haven’t seen any other contenders.

 

[red&blue]

The first league game v Wexford is going to be very interesting. Hopefully the selectors will pick 10 regulars and rotate the other positions between the guys trying to breakthrough to the team.

Our team play has been very much lacking in the last few years as we have never settled on a first 15 and first 25. That began to change this year as the championship progressed but the league must be used to develop patterns of play between individuals and the collective

Guys like Hoggy and Seamus need to be minded for championship so that’s two spots up for grabs. Padraig Power and Robbie O Flynn are two for the inside line and I’d start both v Wexford and go from there

We have to find 2 alternatives for Seamus and Declan at wing foward if we are going to continue taking both off, which I don’t particularly agree with, and I’d be starting Diarmuid Healy in at least half the league games to give him experience. Ben Cunningham is the other fella I’d be looking at here but there’s no doubt he needs to up his performances if he’s going to break through

I’m hoping we will now leave Tim at 8 and let him grow into the position but his partner come championship could be very interesting. Will we stick with Darragh or finally move him to 12 or do we go with Ethan, Mark or possibly Tommy who unfortunately for him seems to be a very good impact sub when needed

Again the defence will be very interesting, Joyce and the 2 Downeys are nailed on starters but there’s question marks over the other 3 spots. No 7 is vital, if we can find the right third leg of the half back line it will dramatically improve us. That could be Mark, but he has to improve his defending, Ger Millerick is an obvious option here or we could find someone like Michael Mullins or Daire O Leary getting a run there. Timmy Wilk would be another option as I think he’s more suited to out the field than in the corner. It’s probably a year too soon for him though

I don’t have a huge issue with either corner backs but they both always look like they have a clanger in them. However any replacements need to be better than them to take their jersey and I haven’t seen anyone better yet. Kevin Lyons looks a great prospect so hopefully he will be involved but it’s a huge year for Conor O Callaghan and Eoin Roche who are both on the panel a few years and need to push on but to be fair Eoin came close last year while Conor was never even tried in his best position corner back

 

[cork2030]

Be careful, you can’t take the name of a stylish wristy cork hurler in vain, the cork hurling man meself will be watching the same clip and blame every other cork defender on the pitch bar Coleman, shur don’t we have to invent a position for hI’m according to some? He is at best an average defender and was cleaned in that final by Fitzgerald in particular at times, you simply can’t have a wing back in the modern age who is so poor in the air and as I have said previously corks defence is 2 defenders away from winning an all Ireland.

100%, only for poor shooting Fitzgerald would have got around 1-10 in the final

 

[JPM]

The first league game v Wexford is going to be very interesting. Hopefully the selectors will pick 10 regulars and rotate the other positions between the guys trying to breakthrough to the team.

Our team play has been very much lacking in the last few years as we have never settled on a first 15 and first 25. That began to change this year as the championship progressed but the league must be used to develop patterns of play between individuals and the collective

Guys like Hoggy and Seamus need to be minded for championship so that’s two spots up for grabs. Padraig Power and Robbie O Flynn are two for the inside line and I’d start both v Wexford and go from there

We have to find 2 alternatives for Seamus and Declan at wing foward if we are going to continue taking both off, which I don’t particularly agree with, and I’d be starting Diarmuid Healy in at least half the league games to give him experience. Ben Cunningham is the other fella I’d be looking at here but there’s no doubt he needs to up his performances if he’s going to break through

I’m hoping we will now leave Tim at 8 and let him grow into the position but his partner come championship could be very interesting. Will we stick with Darragh or finally move him to 12 or do we go with Ethan, Mark or possibly Tommy who unfortunately for him seems to be a very good impact sub when needed

Again the defence will be very interesting, Joyce and the 2 Downeys are nailed on starters but there’s question marks over the other 3 spots. No 7 is vital, if we can find the right third leg of the half back line it will dramatically improve us. That could be Mark, but he has to improve his defending, Ger Millerick is an obvious option here or we could find someone like Michael Mullins or Daire O Leary getting a run there. Timmy Wilk would be another option as I think he’s more suited to out the field than in the corner. It’s probably a year too soon for him though

I don’t have a huge issue with either corner backs but they both always look like they have a clanger in them. However any replacements need to be better than them to take their jersey and I haven’t seen anyone better yet. Kevin Lyons looks a great prospect so hopefully he will be involved but it’s a huge year for Conor O Callaghan and Eoin Roche who are both on the panel a few years and need to push on but to be fair Eoin came close last year while Conor was never even tried in his best position corner back

Good analysis. I mostly agree. Mark can’t be the 7.
Maybe Sean Desmond is worth a look at. He has had some excellent games.
Also if he recaptures form Brian Roche could be considered for wing forward or midfield