Cork Hurlers - Part 2

No, Brian Roche should be I'm his second season developing as a stopper in the malone / Donovan role . O connell, a player I didn't rate before this years league should be partnering him or competing with him.
Instead he is dumped outside the 26.
Lads like those dont take to intervounty like a duck to water they need consistent backing to grow.
Is this some kind of drunken seer advice for the poor relations in Cork?
 
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No, Brian Roche should be I'm his second season developing as a stopper in the malone / Donovan role . O connell, a player I didn't rate before this years league should be partnering him or competing with him.
Instead he is dumped outside the 26.
Lads like those dont take to intervounty like a duck to water they need consistent backing to grow.
I completely agree with you.
 
I’m guilty of it myself at times.

He makes a solid point to be fair. Roche was completely shafted off the panel and based on what? He was very good last year and he has a dog about him. We keep Lehane but drop Roche.
It's true that B Roche was good last year and is dogged.
It's also true that he looked way off that form each time he played this year.
Also looked below par when he played for Bride Rovers in closing games of Senior A last season.
I don't know what happened behind the scenes with Roche - saying he was completely shafted is an over reach as it suggests that management were unfair to not pick him.
If anything the point re Lehane shows the risk involved in persisting with players on the assumption that they'll recapture confidence and form.

I hope B Roche does hit form again, and that we will see him back fighting for his place in future.
 
Haven't posted since before the Waterford game, and haven't managed to read a whole pile of messages over the last few days.

Like all Cork hurling supporters here I'm bitterly bitterly disappointed by the events of the last 11 days. I genuinely genuinely thought at this stage we'd have 4 points on the board and be looking at Limerick in the pairc as the biggest game down the marina since the 2014 Munster final. We are still in the championship but realistically we will probably be gone after this weekend. Tipp are atrocious and I just can't see them taking Waterford in Walsh Park.

Losing to Clare on Sunday in a rip roaring game was no disgrace but we are the architects of our own downfall both on the field and especially on the sideline. We are probably the "must see team" in hurling currently. The great entertainers. Its f*ckall good to us when we have lost the last 4 championship games by a score.

Before I become critical of Pat Ryan and some of the players, I will say I understand that intercounty hurling is a game of inches, it's brutally harsh and almost every mistake no matter how small in Munster is punished. The players give their all and for the most part are fantastic role models who put their bodies through the ringer for our enjoyment, the abuse both they and management often get subjected too is uncalled for.
However in saying that they are all grown men, no one is forcing them to play or manage and no one is above constructive criticism once its not personal.

A lot of our issues over the last 18 months have been self inflicted on the line in my opinion. The management used a huge turnover of players in last years league and clearly didn't know there best 15 come championship. The team selection in Ennis v Clare was poor and the slowness in making glaringly obvious changes was worrying. Despite that we went into the Limerick game with a much stronger team picked and gave a great account of ourselves. On that basis there was realistic optimism going into 2024.

This year again the amount of chopping and changing in the league was ridiculous.
Why was Conor Lehane center forward for the majority of the league? Lehanes strengths and weaknesses are well known. A leader he is not, so what benefit having him in with the young lads?
Why was Michael Mullins only given 10 minutes in the league?
Why was Niall O Leary selected at center back v Kilkenny. Castlelyons wouldn't play O Leary center back so why did Cork?
Why was Con O Callaghan selected midfield that night? He's a defender.
Why was Eoin Roche completely discarded despite doing fine in his 2 appearences.
What was the story with Tim O Mahoney during the league. Played in 2 games, brought on at the end of 1 game and not used in the others?
At the end of the league, management still hadn't found a replacement full back, a steady midfield partnership and a settled half forward line.

Injuries also disrupted the league, this is becoming a common theme in Cork teams in recent years. I'll look past broken bones and other impact injuries as that's all part of contact sport. Does the strength and conditioning programme need to be modified because its scandalous the amount of Cork players that are getting hamstring injuries and shoulder injuries.

We went into championship undercooked in hindsight. Ryan picked the wrong team v Waterford and the sluggish display that day was in keeping with previous management's tenures. The dropping of Eoin Downey was quiet bizarre as was starting all 3 of the over 30s in the forward line. The slow speed of the ball into Alan Connolly that afternoon was most infuriating as was the slowness of Pa Collins puck outs. I felt sorry for Sean Twomey in that first half. Twice I saw him completely lose his man only for Collins to dawdle on the puck out and miss the chance to hit him. Now Twomey was very poor in general play and deserved to be hooked at half time but a few handy balls like that would have done his confidence the world of good. By the same token was Twomey any worse then Hoggie or Lehane in that 1st half but they got to stay on the field. Why?

Last Sunday v Clare Ryan made 6 changes. For the most part they worked but it stank of panic. I think Tim O Mahoney had a fantastic battle with Duggan and for 45 minutes it was 50/50. Thereafter Tim faded and it looked to me like a lack of match fitness, see my above point about Tim's lack of use during the league.
Dalton also ran out of legs and so did Ethan Twomey. Harnedy also looked exhausted coming off. Coleman and Robbie O Flynn don't look the players they were before their injuries and in O Flynns case in particular maybe we would be best leaving him get back to Erin's Own before going again with him next year.

I have a degree of sympathy for management with regards the goalkeeping situation. I think they are right not to push Brion Saunderson just yet. In any other position I'd be plumming for the young guy but goals is a different kettle of fish. Unfortunately it's been clear for a while that Collins probably is not up to the required standard and that was laid bare again last Sunday. I thought we did trojan work around the middle and came away with more then our fair share of breaks but there is nothing a Cork half forward or midfielder can do if Collins pucks the ball directly to their man or can't clear the opposition half forward line.

With regards the sendings off, the Cahalane one was a joke in my opinon. The first yellow wasn't deserved. Thereafter Cahalane should have had the brains to not get caught for a a stupid swipe. The Joyce black card was a free. No more, possession had been lost.
The Sean O Donaghue incident while somewhat harsh was a moment of stupidity. We have all seen refs turn a blind eye to these in the past but it was completely needless from Sean. Obviously it didn't help that O Donnell went down like he'd been shot but O Donnell played both the officials and O Donaghue like a fiddle and we can't have any complaints.

Our approach to the rest of the championship will be interesting. Personally I'd like to see Ryan stay on next year and complete his tenure and see will he turn it around. As I said earlier I think we are as good as gone this year and in that case I'd like to see him begin the rebuild v Limerick in a fortnight. If that involves bringing Mullins, Cunningham, Eoin Roche etc onto the matchday panel so be it.

Not coming out of Munster 2 years in a row is completely unacceptable and I completely understand the Pat Ryan out sentiment. I just don't agree with it .........yet.

Sorry about the length of the post.
Agree with all of this. Mgmt live and die on decisions and results. I firmly believe we have the players to be on 4 points now but a combination of selection ( starting and subs) have for the most part, backfired.
 
I disagree completely that we should start a rebuild v Limerick.
If this team is to go out of Munster let it at least be on the back of 2 wins.
Not going to do the likes of Cunningham or Mullins any good to be fired on v Limerick when they haven't been involved to now.
Both have been injured and and are hardly brimming with confidence.

Experimenting with the team to that degree is neither necessary or wise right now.

We gave an imperfect but great performance v Clare, the players who put in that effort should be good to go again v Limerick.
I wouldn't be advocating for them to be brought on v Limerick. I'd like to see them on the matchday panel for that that game with possibly a view to giving maybe Cunningham a 10 or 15 minute run v Tipp the following week.

Tipp game will most likely be a dead rubber so possibly a chance to start Saunderson in that game as well.

Looking forward to next year while there doesn't need to be massive changes to the panel there certainly needs to be 3 if not 4 or even 5 hard calls made regarding guys who would be seen as leaders. Quite possibly some of these will go themselves.

Also a call needs to be made on Mark Colemans role? What is he? A defender, a midfielder?a forward? Personally I think he's a forward. If Ryan and Co think he's a defender that's fine but they need to start drilling into him to defend first, play loose ball second.

In fairness to Pat Ryan his team has never rolled over. I will give him credit for that. They keep going and have always died with their boots on for him. That's a good trait in a group of players.

Liam Cahill can't say the same thing or even Derek Lyng.

However it's clear their is an issue in the backroom team given the injury rate and the amount of chopping and changing. Maybe Pat Ryan should drop 2 of his selectors. 2 less voices to interfere in his thinking?????
 
The lad not on the pitch is always the answer. Looks like Cunningham is our new saviour. The teams we put out had the capability to win both those games. Anyone here who thinks we have a better hand than we showed against Clare is clueless.
 
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