Russia's unjustifiable war of aggression in Ukraine

[Dr. Aaoouh]

Seriously dude, the point I am making is the US serve their own interests. Seeing them as simply good guys in this conflict is naive and stupid.

US launched 94,000 air strikes: most against Iraq & Afghanistan in the decade or so after 9/11 killing countless civilians. That is irrelevant?

The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children that Madeleine Albright described as "worth it", irrelevant too I suppose?

I mean really this is good v evil!

Not quite seeing any sort of logic here, other than an attempt at whataboutism on your part.

The US serves its own interests? Yes. Its interest here is to oppose Russian aggression in the Ukraine. It's in Europe's interest as well. So what's your point?

US attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan refer to another set of wars. So what makes them relevant to the unjustifiable Russian attack on Ukraine? Are you saying that if the US engages in unjustifiable wars, then Russia gets to also?

Did Madeleine Albright (who served a quarter of a century ago) actually say that "the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children were worth it"? I'd love to see a link supporting that.

For the record, I was opposed to the attack on Iraq at the time. It was easy to see even then that Iraq was not involved in 9/11. The endless Afghanistan war was also a terrible mistake. On the other hand, your points are irrelevant to the current war in Ukraine. Also, I hope you're not implying that if a country does something that "serves its own interests", its intentions are somehow polluted. Because that's simply nonsense on the face of it.

 

[catcha]

Seriously dude, the point I am making is the US serve their own interests. Seeing them as simply good guys in this conflict is naive and stupid.

US launched 94,000 air strikes: most against Iraq & Afghanistan in the decade or so after 9/11 killing countless civilians. That is irrelevant?

The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children that Madeleine Albright described as "worth it", irrelevant too I suppose?

I mean really this is good v evil!

If this would be a thread on American wars in the Middle East I could give a fuck, but it isn't, is it?


So seriously a quite nice attempt on whataboutism from your side, we have all seen it here numerous times in the last over two years, dude.

 

[an liathroid beag]

Silky keeps swallowing Putins bucketfull of shit about all those Nazis in Kiev but the Nazis are actually in the Kremlin and the Russians have previous form of collaboration with Nazis. In 1941 Molotov secretly offered to join the Axis but it came to nothing as Hitler had already decided on Barbasrossa. Russia attacked Finland and invaded Poland, the three Baltic States and seized part of Romania. Its amazing what came out in the open when Communism fell, they even admitted to Katyn.
"To this public pact of nonaggression was appended a secret protocol, also reached on August 23, 1939, which divided the whole of eastern Europe into German and Soviet spheres of influence. Poland east of the line formed by the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers would fall under the Soviet sphere of influence. The protocol also assigned Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland to the Soviet sphere of influence and, further, broached the subject of the separation of Bessarabia from Romania. A secret supplementary protocol (signed September 28, 1939) clarified the Lithuanian borders. The Polish-German border was also determined, and Bessarabia was assigned to the Soviet sphere of influence. In a third secret protocol (signed January 10, 1941, by Count Friedrich Werner von Schulenberg and Molotov), Germany renounced its claims to portions of Lithuania in return for Soviet payment of a sum agreed upon by the two countries."

 

[dahayeser]

Not quite seeing any sort of logic here, other than an attempt at whataboutism on your part.

The US serves its own interests? Yes. Its interest here is to oppose Russian aggression in the Ukraine. It's in Europe's interest as well. So what's your point?

US attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan refer to another set of wars. So what makes them relevant to the unjustifiable Russian attack on Ukraine? Are you saying that if the US engages in unjustifiable wars, then Russia gets to also?

Did Madeleine Albright (who served a quarter of a century ago) actually say that "the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children were worth it"? I'd love to see a link supporting that.

For the record, I was opposed to the attack on Iraq at the time. It was easy to see even then that Iraq was not involved in 9/11. The endless Afghanistan war was also a terrible mistake. On the other hand, your points are irrelevant to the current war in Ukraine. Also, I hope you're not implying that if a country does something that "serves its own interests", its intentions are somehow polluted. Because that's simply nonsense on the face of it.

Ok I'll simplify, it's NOT - "US engages in unjustifiable wars, then Russia gets to also?"

US does engage in countless wars, kills millions of innocents all to server their own interests, it seems we have agreed on that. Yet you are still happy to believe they are whiter than white with regard to the Ukrainian conflict?

Not even a 5% change the have been provoking this conflict and are fueling just enough to prolong it, resulting in thousands of their Ukrainian "friends" dying because that serves their interests too? Even a 1% chance this could be the case??

You have US senators spelling it out "Russians are dying" and bragging about how it's the "best money we ever spent".

No chance at all these "good guys" are happy to sacrifice any Ukrainian they can usher towards the frontline to serve their own interests?

Once again, I'm not saying a good word about Putin. My point is there are 2 bad actors here. Countries like Ireland should be calling for peace talks and not peddling the US narrative like sock puppets.

Multiple links to the Madeleine Albright 60 minutes interview, I posted a different one a few posts back -

 

[Dr. Aaoouh]

Ok I'll simplify, it's NOT - "US engages in unjustifiable wars, then Russia gets to also?"

US does engage in countless wars, kills millions of innocents all to server their own interests, it seems we have agreed on that. Yet you are still happy to believe they are whiter than white with regard to the Ukrainian conflict?

Not even a 5% change the have been provoking this conflict and are fueling just enough to prolong it, resulting in thousands of their Ukrainian "friends" dying because that serves their interests too? Even a 1% chance this could be the case??

You have US senators spelling it out "Russians are dying" and bragging about how it's the "best money we ever spent".

No chance at all these "good guys" are happy to sacrifice any Ukrainian they can usher towards the frontline to serve their own interests?

Once again, I'm not saying a good word about Putin. My point is there are 2 bad actors here. Countries like Ireland should be calling for peace talks and not peddling the US narrative like sock puppets.

Multiple links to the Madeleine Albright 60 minutes interview, I posted a different one a few posts back -

There is a Russian sort of logic about how to talk about the war that you seem to share. It goes (now that Russia has not succeeded in winning it) that the West castigates Russia as evil, but that having also done evil things, the Western position is irrational. It's a rather stupid argument, but its easy to see its old Cold War antecedents and how it probably originates from Putin et al, who can't seem to escape their old Soviet World view.

Anyway, you still seem to imply that America has some sort of "interest" in making Russia weaker by supporting (or as you put it, "instigating") a war between Russia and Ukraine. So let me help you here.

The West, NATO, the EU, and the US have no interest in invading Russia. None at all. If you think that any of these entities have any appetite for gearing up for aggressive conquest, you haven't been to Europe or the US in the last half century. The former EU countries that suffered under Soviet military occupation are, of course, worried about the Russians invading them in the future, just as they have invaded Ukraine, based on nonsensical historical claims. And THAT is why NATO and the US are supporting Ukraine right now.

People talking about the US as some sort of military boogie man here are ignoring the fact that it is not American military power that made it a superpower, but American economic power. Russia is in no way an economic threat to anyone and is in no danger of becoming a world economic power in the way that the US, the EU, Japan, China, etc are. Russia (and its bots here) like to claim that Russia is a major military power because it still has its old nukes and that this somehow translates in economic power, but this is simply not the case. Russia lost the Cold War, when the state capitalist system they had as the Soviet Union collapsed. And Putin has been unable to keep up with Europe and even the old non-European former Soviet Republics in terms of capitalist economic development. In other word, Russia has failed again. And THIS is why they have invaded Ukraine.

 

[dahayeser]

There is a Russian sort of logic about how to talk about the war that you seem to share. It goes (now that Russia has not succeeded in winning it) that the West castigates Russia as evil, but that having also done evil things, the Western position is irrational. It's a rather stupid argument, but its easy to see its old Cold War antecedents and how it probably originates from Putin et al, who can't seem to escape their old Soviet World view.

Anyway, you still seem to imply that America has some sort of "interest" in making Russia weaker by supporting (or as you put it, "instigating") a war between Russia and Ukraine. So let me help you here.

The West, NATO, the EU, and the US have no interest in invading Russia. None at all. If you think that any of these entities have any appetite for gearing up for aggressive conquest, you haven't been to Europe or the US in the last half century. The former EU countries that suffered under Soviet military occupation are, of course, worried about the Russians invading them in the future, just as they have invaded Ukraine, based on nonsensical historical claims. And THAT is why NATO and the US are supporting Ukraine right now.

People talking about the US as some sort of military boogie man here are ignoring the fact that it is not American military power that made it a superpower, but American economic power. Russia is in no way an economic threat to anyone and is in no danger of becoming a world economic power in the way that the US, the EU, Japan, China, etc are. Russia (and its bots here) like to claim that Russia is a major military power because it still has its old nukes and that this somehow translates in economic power, but this is simply not the case. Russia lost the Cold War, when the state capitalist system they had as the Soviet Union collapsed. And Putin has been unable to keep up with Europe and even the old non-European former Soviet Republics in terms of capitalist economic development. In other word, Russia has failed again. And THIS is why they have invaded Ukraine.

You again haven't addressed my question.

With the US record of bombing civilians and causing deaths of 100's of thousands of children serve their own interests, a fraction of which I posted above, including the Madeleine Albright interview you requested, there is no question or doubt in your mind that they are just being purely virtuous here?

Seriously?? Geopolitics are just that simple?

US => Good ( ignore their horrendous track record) vs Russia => Evil. Simples!

 

[Dr. Aaoouh]

You again haven't addressed my question.

With the US record of bombing civilians and causing deaths of 100's of thousands of children serve their own interests, a fraction of which I posted above, including the Madeleine Albright interview you requested, there is no question or doubt in your mind that they are just being purely virtuous here?

Seriously?? Geopolitics are just that simple?

US => Good ( ignore their horrendous track record) vs Russia => Evil. Simples!

There you go again.

The American interest here is that they are trying to keep a lid on a desperate expansionist power (Russia) to keep the peace in Europe. You seem to think that the US must have some other "interest". Virtue, in the sense you are using it, really has nothing to do with it as such. Sorry.

 

[catcha]

You again haven't addressed my question.

maybe because your trolling here is irrelevant? Just guessing...

US => Good ( ignore their horrendous track record) vs Russia => Evil. Simples!

You must be the sharpest knife in the drawer! Family's precious genius offspring. Love the logic! According to what you flood here: It is absolutely OK for Ivan to go to the neighbours and rape their daughter in front of their parents because they do not want to have Lada but VW, and Justin from Alabama raped a ladyboy on their trip to Bangkok 25 years ago anyways. Damn, impressive logic of yours!

Meantime some interesting data:

 

[menace404]

You again haven't addressed my question.

With the US record of bombing civilians and causing deaths of 100's of thousands of children serve their own interests, a fraction of which I posted above, including the Madeleine Albright interview you requested, there is no question or doubt in your mind that they are just being purely virtuous here?

Seriously?? Geopolitics are just that simple?

US => Good ( ignore their horrendous track record) vs Russia => Evil. Simples!

You are some idiot. This rips apart any argument you make.

 

[dahayeser]

There you go again.

The American interest here is that they are trying to keep a lid on a desperate expansionist power (Russia) to keep the peace in Europe. You seem to think that the US must have some other "interest". Virtue, in the sense you are using it, really has nothing to do with it as such. Sorry.

Pure as the driven snow these Americans. Who ever gave the military industrial complex and the CIA such a bad name, I just don't know. I see BlackRock and JP Morgan have helped set up Ukraine reconstruction bank. More help, these guys are just wonderful. You are dead right, the fact they are dripping in the blood of half a million Iraqi children and countless other innocent civilians shouldn't be viewed as a red flag, people change.

maybe because your trolling here is irrelevant? Just guessing...

Even your buddy Aaoouh couldn't give you a like for dismissing the deaths of half a million Iraqi children and more as irrelevant. I think you might be embarrassing him.