Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Corkfan82]

SH TEAM ANNOUNCEMENT – Waterford GAA

www.waterfordgaa.ie

Not much discussion of the Waterford team here. I haven't been following Davy's crew that closely so I'm not up to speed re injuries, but that looks like a pretty experimental side. Decent half-forward line, and be interesting to see how Sean Walsh gets on, he's been pretty consistent for MTU in the Fitzgibbon.

Re the kerfuffle over Hoggy, Lehane and Harnedy, there's two different issues here imo. One is which of them (or possibly all three) should be starting come championship. Fwiw, I would be disappointed if all three were picked to start, as it would suggest either that the younger forwards haven't made enough of an impact or the management lack faith in them. I think all three will have important roles to play, but if they all start (especially Hoggy and Lehane together) that will in all likelihood make Cork that bit easier to play against, since neither are consistently good at closing down the opposition defenders or battling for the ball.

The other issue is playing them in this league fixture. On balance I don't think it's a great call. We have a good idea of what each player brings, and even if Harnedy needs some league time, Hoggy and Lehane each played the last two matches. Even setting aside S. Twomey and O'Mahony, who would have been my preferred picks in the absence of Dalton, I would have preferred one of B. Roche at half-forward or Cotter inside.

FFS fellas here saying Twomey isn't a nailed on starter. Our half forward line has been cleaned out for 10 year. Yerra but Kingston has pace and Lehane has the wrists. FFS WOULD YE STOP.

Agreed, Harnedy has carried us for years. Last year Dalton helped. Twomey has alot to offer and is a serious option on current form, who other counties would select in a heartbeat.

But we are Cork, small pacey forwards only has predominately been the approach....
I think PR is changing this approach but I'd be happier if he started playing TOM in the forwards.

 

[Hurlywurly]

It’s a totally valid point and loads of people agree, while this is the league and the management continue in year 2 to decide on what their best team for championship is, I would think there is a real chance at least harnedy and Horgan will start come championship and possibly lehane despite numerous recent championship performances, that would be unique I would think for a team that has been unsuccessful with a raft of potential younger players to select that we would have a profile like that, quite simply it means we will have less ability to press and tackle and work come championship as older simply don’t have the legs.
All really good players with Horgan and harnedy always producing in championship and lehane is a good league player hopefully come championship we won’t be as heavily reliant on them

"Loads of people agree"
Therein lies the issue.
Not too many alternative thoughts or independent thinking going on...
Peddling notion that having Hoggie, Harnedy and Lehane in the starting 15 tomorrow is somehow a worry or a concern.....
Pure eegitry.

I think R&B said in his post that we're not just looking at 6 forwards for championship, I'd be looking at that as the starting point for the discussion. Not obsessing over who starts in the forward 6.
Munster games are tight, the majority will go down to the wire. Who we're bringing on going down the strait will be key. Highly unlikely that all 3 of the trio that people are whining about will be playing 4 consecutive 70 minute games in Munster, though Hoggie could well do.
Which I do not see as a problem unless it demonstrably becomes one.
Which it certainly was not last year

 

[TheRightHandofRing]

Clare have 4 from 2013

 

[Crankycorner]

Clare have 4 from 2013

But they won.

 

[TheRightHandofRing]

But they won.

What's your point? A few players lost a game 10 years ago so they should be dropped? Makes no sense to me. We're going around in circles with this fixation on Hoggie and Harnedy. Every team has a blend of youth and experience. If they deserve their place, play them. If not, don't.

Take the most recent ch'ship game v Limerick in Munster. Hoggie and Harnedy start no question. May not be the case this year but if they play to that standard again they deserve their spot. Some people will find any excuse to moan.

 

[Crankycorner]

What's your point? A few players lost a game 10 years ago so they should be dropped? Makes no sense to me. We're going around in circles with this fixation on Hoggie and Harnedy. Every team has a blend of youth and experience. If they deserve their place, play them. If not, don't.

Take the most recent ch'ship game v Limerick in Munster. Hoggie and Harnedy start no question. May not be the case this year but if they play to that standard again they deserve their spot. Some people will find any excuse to moan.

True but Clare have a blend of youth and experienced lads with All Ireland medals. We’ve a mixture of youth with underage All Ireland medals and experienced lads who were never able to get over the line. I’m not saying drop them entirely but this is the league and we need to be giving our younger players a chance. The 3 lads from 2013 won’t be there in 2 years. Succession planning is critical.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

What's your point? A few players lost a game 10 years ago so they should be dropped? Makes no sense to me. We're going around in circles with this fixation on Hoggie and Harnedy. Every team has a blend of youth and experience. If they deserve their place, play them. If not, don't.

Take the most recent ch'ship game v Limerick in Munster. Hoggie and Harnedy start no question. May not be the case this year but if they play to that standard again they deserve their spot. Some people will find any excuse to moan.

Well said

 

[TheRightHandofRing]

I don't want to alarm some of the lads on this forum but word I'm hearing out of the camp is that Hoggie, Harnedy and Lehane are all expected to be a day older for the game tomorrow

 

[Crankycorner]

Doesn’t matter according to this forum. Sure it’s only Clare. We will beat them by a score a man this year. WE ARE CORK.

I don't want to alarm some of the lads on this forum but word I'm hearing out of the camp is that Hoggie, Harnedy and Lehane are all expected to be a day older for the game tomorrow

Earlier this week a poster actually said Hoggie could play for another 10 years for Cork. There’s been some fairly ridiculous comments made by those in defence of Hoggie too.

He’ll probably start come championship anyway so why start him in every league game? Maybe Pat Ryan is afraid of doing so? Previous manager shipped massive criticism from some for dropping him. The knife was twisted after he left too.

 

[North Cork]

True but Clare have a blend of youth and experienced lads with All Ireland medals. We’ve a mixture of youth with underage All Ireland medals and experienced lads who were never able to get over the line. I’m not saying drop them entirely but this is the league and we need to be giving our younger players a chance. The 3 lads from 2013 won’t be there in 2 years. Succession planning is critical.

The Clare senior medals are eleven years old,
If you are talking about underage medals as a base to build a team from them I don't think there is any county even close to Cork.
It would be hard to match three under 20's in a four year period and an under 20 team in 2024 that would be rated as high as any other county.
There is no guarantee that any player will make the transition from under age to senior but every county faces that problem.

There are 7 players starting tomorrow with under 20 All Ireland in recent years. In addition B. Roche, E. Roche, E. Downey, S Twomey, Conor OCallaghan, Eoin Carey and Michael Mullins have played in earlier league games , Alan Connolly has made the bench for the first time tomorrow who is joined on the bench by Robbie Cotter.
Ben Cunningham is still recovering from injury.
I think it lays to rest the suggestion that more experienced players should be moved aside to play more of the young crop.
In any event the best way to introduce young players to a team is to have them surrounded with experience to help them settle and learn.

That is serious level of youth on the panel and it is equally true of Clare as it is of Cork that their experienced players will probably not be there in 3 years either.

I really don't think PR and his team are doing much wrong atm.