Woman murdered in Tullamore..

[Matlock]

I understand that but if a woman gets catcalled and responds to it in a friendly nature then the male in question isn’t going to see it as endangering her or offending her as I’m sure plenty catcalling incidents are probably intended as low wit banter rather than endangerment.

All of these examples are hypothetical of course. There are probably some women who can see the funny side of it and enjoy it. And then like you said there are probably plenty of women who hate it and get scared by it. We don’t know for sure but the fact reactions differ to it means it’s not too hard to see how catcalling has been a thing and is still a thing. If it was always greeted with a bad response then it would be much rarer.

Every time a woman is murdered isn’t always because of misogyny in society. Linking misogyny and murder without more facts about the murderer is a strange thing to do. Social media has done this though for some reason. Nobody can deny many on social media have used this incident to boost their profile and to push side agendas.

But that completely discounts the fact that women often dont give a bad response because they are scared to.

Also, that's putting the responsibility on women to moderate mens behaviour. Why is our my job to tell a guy that i dont appreciate him asking me to flash my tits rather than it being his job to work that out for himself?

It doesnt feel at all strange to me that people are linking the two things tbh.

 

[CaptainSensible]

I get where you're coming from but to me that just sounds like we have to pretend that the misogynistics arent being misogynistic because their right not to be offended or insulted trumps the rights of women not to be harassed.

Secondly, the approach you are suggesting is basically what consent classes teach, and I'm sure you are aware of how the notion of them is reacted to on here...

I don't think it has anything to do with the rights of misogynists, generally people who are ists or follow isms don't/can't change, so forget about them, if you want society to change then I think the softly softly approach is best, that's all.

The whole point is to achieve a better outcome, should this be sacrificed just to give some prick of a misogynist the two fingers when in all probability he would probably use it as a justification to himself for his dislike/hatred of women, so in essence he is doesn't even feel insulted but vindicated. It is the non misogynists who'll feel insulted, and they are the people you want to change, as the others are beyond change.

 

[Shabby]

But that completely discounts the fact that women often dont give a bad response because they are scared to.

Also, that's putting the responsibility on women to moderate mens behaviour. Why is our my job to tell a guy that i dont appreciate him asking me to flash my tits rather than it being his job to work that out for himself?

It doesnt feel at all strange to me that people are linking the two things tbh.

But that’s only sometimes. Sometimes women are afraid to give a bad response. Sometimes they give a bad response. Sometimes they give a good hearted response. The response varies and if someone gets a good response to anything in life then he or she is more likely to do it again. Catcalling is no different.

Women are becoming more aware to greet it badly and men are becoming more aware to not do it. It’s a start anyway.

We could cut all of the misogyny out of society. We could make the finest gentleman out of 99% of males but guys like the psycho that murdered Ashling Murphy will always exist in society, sadly. There will be more women murdered, sadly. And men too. Linking misogyny to such an incident is done so by people with an side agenda & many have rowed in behind it because it’s that’s the way the tide has gone on it on social media.

 

[Matlock]

But that’s only sometimes. Sometimes women are afraid to give a bad response. Sometimes they give a bad response. Sometimes they give a good hearted response. The response varies and if someone gets a good response to anything in life then he or she is more likely to do it again. Catcalling is no different.

Women are becoming more aware to greet it badly and men are becoming more aware to not do it. It’s a start anyway.

We could cut all of the misogyny out of society. We could make the finest gentleman out of 99% of males but guys like the psycho that murdered Ashling Murphy will always exist in society, sadly. There will be more women murdered, sadly. And men too. Linking misogyny to such an incident is done so by people with an side agenda & many have rowed in behind it because it’s that’s the way the tide has gone on it on social media.

But misogyny is linked to it.

I'll try and explain with an example, I was walking home from work last year and some drunken young fella on Barrack street told me to cheer up and give him a smile. I told him to fuck off ( cos I was tired and not in the mood for his shit) and his response was to call me a cunt and try and grab my phone off me.

His friend intervened and got him away and apologised to me but he continued to roar abuse until I was out of ear shot.

That wasnt a clumsy attempt at chatting up ( I was twice his age for a start!), it was anger and violence because a woman wouldnt do what he told them too. That sort of shit happens all the time to women.

Now, that's a very minor thing in comparison to what happened to Aisling Murphy, but it is on the same continuum. While murders like hers are very uncommon, experiences like that are not.

 

[Matlock]

I don't think it has anything to do with the rights of misogynists, generally people who are ists or follow isms don't/can't change, so forget about them, if you want society to change then I think the softly softly approach is best, that's all.

The whole point is to achieve a better outcome, should this be sacrificed just to give some prick of a misogynist the two fingers when in all probability he would probably use it as a justification to himself for his dislike/hatred of women, so in essence he is doesn't even feel insulted but vindicated. It is the non misogynists who'll feel insulted, and they are the people you want to change, as the others are beyond change.

Ideally I'd like them to take responsibility for changing by themselves rather than making it my job!

Maybe men could just take it as a rule from now on that you never need to wolf whistle at a woman. Most women dont like it, and the few that do must have fairly low self esteem. Imagine how impressed that cohort would be if you treated them with some dignity!

Likewise, no woman's day has ever been improved by a random man shouting at her to flash her tits. That's not something we get anything out of.

Similarly, if a woman is not smiling while going about her day, you can take it that she doesn't feel the need to smile. You telling her to cheer up will not, in fact, cheer her up. In fact, if you have ever told a woman to smile and her response has been to smile, that's not because you cheered her up, its because shes afraid of you.

 

[Two Pour Bore]

What’s the alternative?

Don't be a raging mentalist predicting the apocalypse every time your daughter/sister/friend goes out.

I think you've taken a fairly weird perspective on what I was saying. Most women know dodgy stuff can happen. They don't need someone frightening the shit out of them about it from the age they first go to the cinema without an adult.

 

[conchuir]

But misogyny is linked to it.

I'll try and explain with an example, I was walking home from work last year and some drunken young fella on Barrack street told me to cheer up and give him a smile. I told him to fuck off ( cos I was tired and not in the mood for his shit) and his response was to call me a cunt and try and grab my phone off me.

His friend intervened and got him away and apologised to me but he continued to roar abuse until I was out of ear shot.

That wasnt a clumsy attempt at chatting up ( I was twice his age for a start!), it was anger and violence because a woman wouldnt do what he told them too. That sort of shit happens all the time to women.

Now, that's a very minor thing in comparison to what happened to Aisling Murphy, but it is on the same continuum. While murders like hers are very uncommon, experiences like that are not.

Echoing a work conversation I overheard today, not a parent myself but I totally agree. 99% of these dickheads who think it's OK to grope women at any time of day or night (and God knows I've stumbled down many a Cork street langers in my time) are the product of their scumbag parents.

You need a licence to raise a dog, etc, etc. Bring back eugenics and you have my vote.

 

[rebel without a caus]

But misogyny is linked to it.

I'll try and explain with an example, I was walking home from work last year and some drunken young fella on Barrack street told me to cheer up and give him a smile. I told him to fuck off ( cos I was tired and not in the mood for his shit) and his response was to call me a cunt and try and grab my phone off me.

His friend intervened and got him away and apologised to me but he continued to roar abuse until I was out of ear shot.

That wasnt a clumsy attempt at chatting up ( I was twice his age for a start!), it was anger and violence because a woman wouldnt do what he told them too. That sort of shit happens all the time to women.

Now, that's a very minor thing in comparison to what happened to Aisling Murphy, but it is on the same continuum. While murders like hers are very uncommon, experiences like that are not.

But this stuff happens to men aswell. Men get jumped-on in town aswell by the same type of mindless scum. Men need to also watch their backs walking through town at night. The difference is we can better defend ourselves if/when it does happen.
The justice system needs to get tougher. This is what is letting us down badly. 95% of men, and women, are decent hardworking people. But theres a growing minority of men, and women, out there who contribute nothing to society. Only leeching on society and bringing violence, drugs, crime, etc, etc into our world. Our gaurds need to start getting tough on these men, and women, and judges need to start locking them up.
These are the problem, the actual instigators of all this crime, abuse and violence. Not me (a man) just going about his day to day business as honestly as he can.
I actually find this 'all men need to take responsibility' argument totally disrespectful to Aisling Murphy and other women and men like her. They deserve better, they deserve a more honest and accurate assessment of what are the issues and causes of this kind of thing, to avoid similar happening to others in future. "ALL men need to change" totally deflects from the real cause behind this. Which right now, we are still in the dark about.

 

[nelly sham]

But misogyny is linked to it.

I'll try and explain with an example, I was walking home from work last year and some drunken young fella on Barrack street told me to cheer up and give him a smile. I told him to fuck off ( cos I was tired and not in the mood for his shit) and his response was to call me a cunt and try and grab my phone off me.

His friend intervened and got him away and apologised to me but he continued to roar abuse until I was out of ear shot.

That wasnt a clumsy attempt at chatting up ( I was twice his age for a start!), it was anger and violence because a woman wouldnt do what he told them too. That sort of shit happens all the time

Reminds me of an incident my wife had, she was up the country for a Hen. 2am usual scene of getting chips and heading home. Some fella tried chatting her up and she wasn’t having it, he then tried chatting up her friend only for the missus to tell him to fuck off. He went into full on rage, calling her every name under the sun. His friends to be fair, took him away immediately and apologised.
2 mins later he comes back, punches the window, and spits on the window telling her he’s going to knock her out. Thankfully some other lads in there grabbed him up before his friends came back.

She was pretty shook after it, especially when she thought about what would have happened if it was on the street, the anger descended on him almost instantly.

 

[Orchard thief]

Echoing a work conversation I overheard today, not a parent myself but I totally agree. 99% of these dickheads who think it's OK to grope women at any time of day or night (and God knows I've stumbled down many a Cork street langers in my time) are the product of their scumbag parents.

You need a licence to raise a dog, etc, etc. Bring back eugenics and you have my vote.

-Ballyraggett GAA
-Ulster Rugby
-Dr Barry
+ too many more to mention

The all male fee paying private schools in town are privileged prick factories as well so it’s not just the traditional “scumbags” that are to blame.