No Pasaran

[pudgee]

News and speeches:
70th anniversary of Spanish Civil War

Tuesday 18 July 2006

This week marks the 70th anniversary of the beginning of one of the darkest periods in European history - the Spanish Civil War.

Marking the anniversary, Tony Blair said:

"There are few alive today who fought in that war but I want to pay tribute to those who did decide to risk so much in the fight against dictatorship - from the writers like George Orwell to the trade unionists like Jack Jones. They lost that war, though the greater cause - the defeat of fascism - was finally won.

"Today Spain is a strong democratic state and a strong partner for Britain in Europe. Its example shows that even after the most oppressive periods and the greatest suffering reconciliation and democracy can flourish.

"The legacy of the conflict, one where the spirit of internationalism shone through, has lessons for us all today."

 

[jungle]

Question for you

If the republican side had won, do you think we'd be talking about an evil left-wing dictatorship instead now?

 

[pudgee]

I don't think so, but of course it's impossible to say. It would really depend on how much influence the Moscow-alligned Communists would have had, which I don't think was overwhelming, but, possibly more importantly, on how much Stalin would've valued a puppet state in Spain.

What do you think?

 

[janglinjack]

Question for you

If the republican side had won, do you think we'd be talking about an evil left-wing dictatorship instead now?

Probably.

 

[jungle]

I don't think so, but of course it's impossible to say. It would really depend on how much influence the Moscow-alligned Communists would have had, which I don't think was overwhelming, but, possibly more importantly, on how much Stalin would've valued a puppet state in Spain.

What do you think?

I suspect that the communists would have prevailed, dragging Spain into World War II.

There would probably have been a German invasion as a result.

Assuming the allies had still prevailed in WWII in these circumstances, Spain would have most likely ended up similar to France and Italy after the war. A country with a strong left-wing tradition, but fundamentally democratic.

I do feel that not everyone on the republican side was fighting for a good cause in the Spanish Civil War.

 

[pudgee]

I suspect that the communists would have prevailed, dragging Spain into World War II.

There would probably have been a German invasion as a result.

Assuming the allies had still prevailed in WWII in these circumstances, Spain would have most likely ended up similar to France and Italy after the war. A country with a strong left-wing tradition, but fundamentally democratic.

I do feel that not everyone on the republican side was fighting for a good cause in the Spanish Civil War.

They were fighting for a good cause, but probably with a malevolant intent (we're talking about the Stalinists here, right?).

 

[jungle]

They were fighting for a good cause, but probably with a malevolant intent (we're talking about the Stalinists here, right?).

Indeed

On both counts

 

[bilbaofeen]

hmmm simplistic at best, the republican side were so divided amongst themselves like; you have basque/catalan nationalists; basque/catalan communists/socialists/left-liberals; then you had the 'unionist' communist/socialist/left-liberals- atrocities were committed on both sides, but the fascists got the opportunity to carry on their atrocities until the 1970's; when the socialists gained power under Feliepe Gonzalez, the Death Squads (GAL) murdered basque nationalists, most of those killed didnt have any links/sympathies to ETA;

It's amazing how Baltazar Garzon has the audacity to indicte Agusto Pinochet along with other generals when Spain has never dealt with its tragic past either like

 

[jungle]

hmmm simplistic at best, the republican side were so divided amongst themselves like; you have basque/catalan nationalists; basque/catalan communists/socialists/left-liberals; then you had the 'unionist' communist/socialist/left-liberals

You'd even wonder if there would have been a second civil war if the republicans had won. I suspect the looming larger conflict in Europe would have prevented it, but you wouldn't know.

 

[o'huallaigh]

If there is such a thing was it the last romantic war? I don't mean lovey dovey but idealism. Homage Y a Catalunya is a great book and particulary sad as you see the breakdown of neighbours, friends, comrades etc. In some ways I think it was a better outcome as it showed fascism for what it really is.