Wuhan Wheeze

[Matlock]

In all honesty I think that if there is pressure for ICU beds, that those who have been vaccinated should get prioritised over the head bangers.

I would tend to feel the same, but in reality they will be prioritized in terms of outcome so an otherwise fit headbanger with covid will get an ICU bed over my elderly mother as they are more likely to survive if ventilated.

It makes me so fucking angry.

 

[Stacky]

I would tend to feel the same, but in reality they will be prioritized in terms of outcome so an otherwise fit headbanger with covid will get an ICU bed over my elderly mother as they are more likely to survive if ventilated.

It makes me so fucking angry.

These very same headbangers will be the ones out protesting about their civil rights if we have to have another 2 week circuit-breaker lockdown.

The same headbangers who do not trust medical science will be exhausting all the medical science and expertise as they access drugs and I.C.U. nurses etc to keep them alive.

 

[Dr. Angus Brick]

The part I took issue is him giving them as reasons why the vaccine was not safe.

He mentioned that the vaccines long term side effects are as yet unknown. This is a completely valid point. Long term studies take years to complete. Live attenuated vaccines have been around for decades and he said he would be willing to take it should one be developed. I find this to be a perfectly reasonable position. He is fully entitled to err on the side of caution when it comes to his health.

I am not sure if The Black Knight or you are aware but a live attenuated Covid19 vaccine is currently under development. If this is to become widely available over the next number of years, I think it may sway the vast majority of remaining unvaccinated to take this jab.

You have no idea what I know.

I also didn't ask him to take my word on anything.

With all due respect, you have no idea what The Black Knight knows either. The tendency I have seen from the vaccinated is to label the unvaccinated as dumb or misinformed. This is not at all my experience. Typically the vaccine hesitant I've met are more familiar with vaccine studies and more aware of their own Covid risk than the vaccinated.

Speaking to one nurse I asked her why she was unvaccinated and she told me while she has seen the first hand risk of Covid in the elderly, vulnerable, she thinks her own risk is low. She is not wrong. Her risk of catching and being hospitalised with Covid over a 30 day period at any time is approximately 1 in 10,000. She asked me to show her a study that shows that her risk of serious harm from the vaccine is lower than her risk of hospitalisation. I couldn't do this because the trials weren't big enough. They weren't big enough to show the vaccines caused Myocarditis or other side effects we now know about. I've posted links as to how small the Pfizer trials before FDA approval were. To reduce vaccine hesitancy one item we need is proof the vaccines reduce hospitalisations without causing serious harm.

 

[CORKBHOY]

I would tend to feel the same, but in reality they will be prioritized in terms of outcome so an otherwise fit headbanger with covid will get an ICU bed over my elderly mother as they are more likely to survive if ventilated.

It makes me so fucking angry.

That's a very dangerous road to go down. If that policy was introduced it opens the door to put obese people with heart disease, smokers with lung cancers etc to the back of the queue. After all public health advice is not to become overweight or smoke.

 

[Stacky]

Visualising the 3rd dose offer. Using @UKHSA 4-week case prevalences per 100k (ONS), UK unvaccinated adults currently face an annualised risk of a Delta case of ~25%. Applying UKHSA's recent work on real-world vaccine effectiveness against Delta, you get something like this.


Risk indeed.

 

[Stacky]

That's a very dangerous road to go down. If that policy was introduced it opens the door to put obese people with heart disease, smokers with lung cancers etc to the back of the queue. After all public health advice is not to become overweight or smoke.

They discriminate against themselves by not adhering to public health advice in the first instance.

 

[Matlock]

That's a very dangerous road to go down. If that policy was introduced it opens the door to put obese people with heart disease, smokers with lung cancers etc to the back of the queue. After all public health advice is not to become overweight or smoke.

I know you're right. It just makes me so mad.

My mam was in hospital a few weeks ago. Not covid related and she is fine now thank God. But the terror or not knowing if there will be an ICU bed for her if she needs it is ever present.

I have another close family member with cancer. Again, the thought that they might need an ICU bed and not be able to get it because some muppet thinks that their right to be a muppet is more important than anyone else's right to live infuriates me.

 

[Matlock]

He mentioned that the vaccines long term side effects are as yet unknown. This is a completely valid point. Long term studies take years to complete. Live attenuated vaccines have been around for decades and he said he would be willing to take it should one be developed. I find this to be a perfectly reasonable position. He is fully entitled to err on the side of caution when it comes to his health.

I am not sure if The Black Knight or you are aware but a live attenuated Covid19 vaccine is currently under development. If this is to become widely available over the next number of years, I think it may sway the vast majority of remaining unvaccinated to take this jab.


With all due respect, you have no idea what The Black Knight knows either. The tendency I have seen from the vaccinated is to label the unvaccinated as dumb or misinformed. This is not at all my experience. Typically the vaccine hesitant I've met are more familiar with vaccine studies and more aware of their own Covid risk than the vaccinated.

Speaking to one nurse I asked her why she was unvaccinated and she told me while she has seen the first hand risk of Covid in the elderly, vulnerable, she thinks her own risk is low. She is not wrong. Her risk of catching and being hospitalised with Covid over a 30 day period at any time is approximately 1 in 10,000. She asked me to show her a study that shows that her risk of serious harm from the vaccine is lower than her risk of hospitalisation. I couldn't do this because the trials weren't big enough. They weren't big enough to show the vaccines caused Myocarditis or other side effects we now know about. I've posted links as to how small the Pfizer trials before FDA approval were. To reduce vaccine hesitancy one item we need is proof the vaccines reduce hospitalisations without causing serious harm.

I know that he thinks it is ok to spread misinformation. Note his "Leo said that at best 100k people were going to die of covid" post.

In terms of proving that vaccines reduce hospitalizations, is the split in ICU at the moment not enough, no?

You might consider his right to err on the side of caution in relation to his own health a reasonable one. When that hesitancy has impacts on other people, I don't consider it to be reasonable at all.

 

[Roxetten]

A 2-3 week full lockdown including schools and colleges, would it halt the surge and save Christmas?

Would people get behind it or even if they did would they go mad once it ends and render it pointless?

 

[Drucker]

I may get vaccinated if a live-attenuated vaccine which I can take becomes available as the science around them is very strong and their benefits emphatically proven. Long term side effects of mRNA and viral vector vaccines are yet to be determined so even if I could take them I wouldn't.

No vacccines can be placed on the market until they have been rigorously tested for safety and efficacy by our regulatory authorities.
We are all in a lifelong clincal trial, and in the end, everybody dies.

You are fake news.

Sad.