The Gaelic Football Thread

[shez1987]

Yes but in these sports the 6th best team in the regular season never misses out on the postseason, which is essentially my point, to have 10 qualify for the postseason and not include the 6th best team doesn't make sense.

It can happen. Washington made the NFL play-offs last year at 7-9 whilst Arizona missed out on 8-8. Seattle made the playoffs with a losing record in 2010 whilst two 10-6 teams missed out.

Not very often admittedly, and it's a kink where some divisions are stronger than others. But it works, as it gives more teams prolonged interest in the competition.

You are never going to have a perfectly fair system. But a structure where everyone has something to play for has to be better than what's there currently.

 

[BettyDoesMallow]

It's silly because in practise will reward some teams for losing. If Cork are in division 2 or 3 I would rather see them stay there and (almost) guarantee them a path to the knockout stages. Instead if they get promoted they're dead meat in Division 1.

Conversely if you're in a relegation spot, stay there, don't bother winning and you get an easier road to the knock out round next year.

I'd like to think personal pride would prevent such a scenario from playing out but these days people look for the optimal strategy and here that strategy disincentivises winning.

Also a note on the nfl, last year the final regular season game was thrown by a team who were incentivised to lose. Their decision affected what team made the playoffs from their division

True.
The optimum spot is 3rd in Division 2.
If a team was guaranteed top 3 in Div 2 with a game or two to spare you'd see them intentionally losing to try and finish 3rd as getting promoted to div 1 and trying to get top 5 there the following season would be a hell of a lot harder than just getting a top 3 spot in div 2.

Ditto teams in div 1 where top 5 in div 1 was out of reach would intentionally lose to try and get relegated to div 2.

Also interesting to see Kevin O Donovan suggest bonus points for provincial winners as that's more likely to benefit his div 2 rivals Galway and Roscommon than Cork, unless he thinks Kerry will treat the new Munster c'ship like the McGrath cup or maybe have bonus points for provincial runners up also

 

[cooldude]

If a team was guaranteed top 3 in Div 2 with a game or two to spare you'd see them intentionally losing to try and finish 3rd as getting promoted to div 1 and trying to get top 5 there the following season would be a hell of a lot harder than just getting a top 3 spot in div 2.


Hard to imagine that scenario as the teams they would lose to were above them in the table, and how could they possibly guess the results of the teams under them. That would be so risky that it's practically impossible IMHO.

 

[BettyDoesMallow]

It can happen. Washington made the NFL play-offs last year at 7-9 whilst Arizona missed out on 8-8. Seattle made the playoffs with a losing record in 2010 whilst two 10-6 teams missed out.

Not very often admittedly, and it's a kink where some divisions are stronger than others. But it works, as it gives more teams prolonged interest in the competition.

You are never going to have a perfectly fair system. But a structure where everyone has something to play for has to be better than what's there currently.

Yes, a few weaker teams got in but none of the top 10 teams lost out. The 10-6 teams were about 11th or 12th in the official rankings.

Again, top 6 teams generally do not miss out in postseasons with 10 or more postseason spots.

 

[BettyDoesMallow]

If a team was guaranteed top 3 in Div 2 with a game or two to spare you'd see them intentionally losing to try and finish 3rd as getting promoted to div 1 and trying to get top 5 there the following season would be a hell of a lot harder than just getting a top 3 spot in div 2.


Hard to imagine that scenario as the teams they would lose to were above them in the table, and how could they possibly guess the results of the teams under them. That would be so risky that it's practically impossible IMHO.

I don't see the risk?
If going into the final game a team were 3+ points ahead of 4th (or 2 points and an unassailable tie breaker criteria) they could lose their last game without risk of missing out on the c'ship. (or lose last 2 games if 5+ pts ahead or 4 ahead with tie-breaker secure)

 

[Megelus]

Yes, a few weaker teams got in but none of the top 10 teams lost out. The 10-6 teams were about 11th or 12th in the official rankings.

Again, top 6 teams generally do not miss out in postseasons with 10 or more postseason spots.

Fun trivia, until last year it was theoretically possible (though incredibly unlikely and has never remotely come close to happening) for an nfl team to go 13-3 and still miss the playoffs. With 3 wildcards it's 13-4 I believe.

2008 was notable for the 11-5 Patriots being out while the 8-8 Chargers were in.

I was pulling for the Giants at the end of last year just for the novelty of a 6-10 team in the playoffs.

Back on topic- The main thing to ensure is that no team has a specific incentive for losing a game.

In principle having a multi tier system has some sense to it, like they do in hurling, but the GAA has only used the tiers to marginalise and ignore the weaker and less popular teams.

 

[bluesball]

The provincial championships are still going to go ahead outside of ulster why bother unless there is a benefit for winning your province.The munster championship will be a glorified McGrath cup in all but name and i cannot see more than 5k attending the final.

 

[dukeroyale]

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/balls-ie-h...p-christy-cooney-you-can-thank-us-later-26194

from ten years ago. the dinosaurs in the provincial system are really the only thing holding something like this back.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Looks like the Dubs are channelling their inner Messi.

 

[BettyDoesMallow]

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/balls-ie-h...p-christy-cooney-you-can-thank-us-later-26194

from ten years ago. the dinosaurs in the provincial system are really the only thing holding something like this back.

Yeah, it's the teams that are most likely to end up in 6th, 7th and 8th in Div 1 that are voting against it such as Mayo and Armagh so far and the main teams in Ulster likely to do the same.

Galway must be thinking long term by voting against it as top 3 in Div 2 looks an easy target for them in 2022.

Down have found the Ulster c'ship too tough recently so I guess they're voting yes as top 3 in Div 2 would be an easier path for them to an All-Ireland 1/4 final.

Not sure why Fermanagh are voting no, the new system might give them a better chance of winning Ulster and leave Wicklow as the only team that haven't won a Provincial title, and would have a decent chance of winning the Tailteann cup.

Proposal B is 50:50 of passing congress I reckon. If they gave Div 1 a couple of more slots in the c'ship it would be a certainty to pass.