Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Bana]

Collins
O,Donoghue- millerick- O’Leary
O’mahoney - Joyce - Downey
Coleman - Conor Cahalane
Harnedy - lehane - Flynn
Jack O’Connor - Connolly - keane

This is for Clare only, I’m not sure what injury story is with dara o’ Leary?
I’m not sure if mark Keane is up to this level but he needs to be tried and put him in a forward line with Connolly who as we know scores goals, let jack O’Connor float picking up ball and running directly

Defence is automatically better then Sunday with players playing their natural position bar Tim but that an acceptable risk.
After that the bench is weak mainly imo due to lack of game time for the likes of Quirke, Twomey, Connery who seems totally out of favour, Roche etc. it we are where we are

Fitzgibbon?

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

I'm going to try to be positive about the rest of the championship. I think Kingston will pare back the obsession with passing it out from the back, get a lot more movement from his forwards to give the backs options to pass and up the work rate. We showed with our own goal and with some of the point taking, especially immediately after half time when we got four points in a row, that we do have excellent forwards who can cut defences open. When defences tighten up in the middle however, we should be able to go wide and we don't.

I think Damien Cahalane is a great Cork servant and I know he'll be disappointed with his performance, but Hayes's goal was just too easy. When Hayes initially got possession Cahalane did well to harrass him and stop him from going around him. Hayes stops to look for options, sees another Cork defender coming in, realises Cahalane has left the goal side open and then Hayes is gone. Cahalane slips and that seals it.

From underage you are taught in any field sport to 'guard the house'. Stay goal side of your man and don't let him inside you. Force him out. I was very close to this and there were fellas around me screaming to not let Hayes inside. I understand Cahalane thought Hayes might try to cut inside, but between the two defenders they could have pushed Hayes out to the sideline.


View attachment 11592

In the first screenshot Cahalane's position is ok, but then he steps away from goal. That second screenshot breaks my heart. If that was at the other end, the Limerick defender would be inside the Cork forward's jocks once he gets forced outside because he would be aware there's another covering defender arriving.

Here's the video if you're able for it:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1515711559070277639

What gauls me is that for all the talk about Cork's lack of physicality Cahalane actually does well to twart Hayes's initial plan and pushes all 6ft 5 of Hayes out, but then is very naive in not staying goal side of him even though Coleman is covering.

This let Limerick off the hook again for their initial slow start and gave them a three point lead.

My point here is that while Cork could do with all the physicality they can, I think there's too much emphasis on it as a major problem. Our defence has been leaking for far too long and you can have all the small/big/zippy/physical/wristy forwards you want but if you let teams score goals like this it's like trying to bail water out of a sinking boat.

Coleman should never have gone to Hayes, he should have gone to space left behind Cahalane between Hayes and the goal.

 

[PROCNA2018]

Collins
O,Donoghue- millerick- O’Leary
O’mahoney - Joyce - Downey
Coleman - Conor Cahalane
Harnedy - lehane - Flynn
Jack O’Connor - Connolly - keane

This is for Clare only, I’m not sure what injury story is with dara o’ Leary?
I’m not sure if mark Keane is up to this level but he needs to be tried and put him in a forward line with Connolly who as we know scores goals, let jack O’Connor float picking up ball and running directly

Defence is automatically better then Sunday with players playing their natural position bar Tim but that an acceptable risk.
After that the bench is weak mainly imo due to lack of game time for the likes of Quirke, Twomey, Connery who seems totally out of favour, Roche etc. it we are where we are

Posted this last Friday

Assuming there was a plan that had been worked on - mine would look like this.

PC
A fb line of SOD, GM, RD
A hb line of TOM, CJ, MC
A midfield of DF and I can't decide
A hf line of ROF, SB, CL
A ff line of personally despite his lack of time AC, SK and JOC

Hoggie and Harnedy off the bench.

I understand Daire O'Leary has a foot injury keeping him out.

6 of the back 7 in common, albeit the O'Leary injury and Coleman difference.
3 of the front 6 in common.

 

[junior footballer]

Fitzgibbon?

He’s a good player but has had two bad days out and I think at some stage players need to be dropped and given a reset, sometimes it’s the best thing for the player himself. Other players on the panel are given very little game time or are dropped routinely and it’s not the way a squad should operate

 

[Happyhonkaman]

Does asking the question matter? - genuine question, what are your 15 for Clare with a view to Waterford and Tipp there after? Would you throw the short passing out altogether or tweak it? Or depending on your selection inside, look to go fast and direct in front of the corner forwards who would presumably have pace? And I would ask that of thready or r&b or hank or anybody so not having a go.

We won't get to pick the team or plan but there is enough knowledge here that rather than looking for player or coach revolts - a credible alternative could be outlined.

Otherwise all we are at is - I'm wrong and you're right craic which we are all dab hands at to be fair but won't change the mood on the thread from Sunday..

The running game has been found out as the only plan we have or the only way we will play.
That is unsustainable.
The fb line is unsustainable.
The CB position, the use of Coleman, the whether to use Hoggie and harnedy off the bench .........................

I fear if you are KK or the Rock - knowing all the commentary and opinions out there, you arrive down to training and have nothing..............because to fix at this stage properly is too much and that is if they spent the last 2 days actually thinking along the lines of people here.

There are posts here ranging in suggestions from ripping it all up and starting again, to some more subtle changes. 2 weeks is plenty because the problems we have are blindingly obvious. 2 weeks wont give us the changes to win an AI but it might get us enough to get through the next match and then we get some more time and a bit of confidence to build with. There is also a lot of turning on certain players and making them the issue, when the system we play is totally exposing them at times.

If I were in Kingstons shoes I would not be abandoning everything in the playing philosophy because it can be part of a plan that would work but its not flexible enough on its own and doesn't allow the players to interpret anything on the pitch. It would not be a massive shift to play a more expansive free brand of hurling that incorporates the off the shoulder running and short passing with the ball in front of the forward passes into space that we need to get them moving - thats how the better counties play anyway and lads would play club hurling like that so no great mystery. But we have to let the players think on the pitch, react to whats happening, and make judgements because thats what wins games, not sticking to a plan rigidly long after it has stopped working.

I'd make something like 4 changes on the pitch - DC out, Coleman to mid with Joyce at CHB, Downey gets the wing back position. Fitz to CHF with Harnedy and Barrett, and SK would make way for JOC. Being realistic about whats possible given the game time and experience available to them this is already be a decent enough alteration to the spine of the team, if that went well we would be solid and have something to build with again

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Yea - but that is a part of what I was trying to say.
Your brain, his brain, r&b, hank, others..............as Cork fans rather than arguing who is right I am sure we could crystallise on a realistic solution.............if for no other reason to change the vibe.

Can't see how it changes the vibe. The fact we got to an AI final last year glossed over at a lot of KK management team as we clearly had the softer side of the draw avoiding Waterford, Tipp and Galway and were haunted to beat Clare. In my opinion his management team hasn't improved with the addition of Mulcahy and Furlong.
As for picking a team against Clare, I see merits in the team JF picked but without knowing DOL fitness situation it is hard, so assuming he is fit. I will go with

Collins
SOD
DOL
NOL
TOM
JOYCE
DOWNEY

COLEMAN
FITZGIBBON
MELLERICK ( TO PICK UP KELLY)

LEHANE
BARRETT
ROF

CONNOLLY
1 OF HOGGY/JOC/CADOGAN/HARNEDY
If Harnedy then he rotates with Lehane in and out.

 

[bluesball]

Of the 1st 15 on Sunday how many were playing in their club position

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

If I were in Kingstons shoes I would not be abandoning everything in the playing philosophy because it can be part of a plan that would work but its not flexible enough on its own and doesn't allow the players to interpret anything on the pitch. It would not be a massive shift to play a more expansive free brand of hurling that incorporates the off the shoulder running and short passing with the ball in front of the forward passes into space that we need to get them moving

This, so much this. I think I posted here after the KK or Waterford game not sure, three times Harnedy got the ball and looked for a short handpass in stead of heading to goal or shooting like he would have done last year. It seems ingrained this year that they look for the pass first rather than going forward. Heads up hurling is lost on this team.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

I'll take your word on the 160 mins, I didn't realise it was that much to be honest.

The majority of those were played in one game which was his first back though and a few cameos there on. Personally I feel he was worth a few starts to see if he could regain form.

Of course I am biased as I am a big fan so I hope to see him push on and do what he is capable of with Cork.

Nope.
He came on against Clare, Offaly and Limerick for circa 20 mins in each of the first three league games, he started against Galway and played 40 odd mins, 25 mins against Wexford, 10 again KK and 20 odd against Waterford in the final.
I'm also a big fan of his but he was definitely given enough time and I think he was also one of the few released to play his club league games but I'm not 100% certain on that.

 

[Happyhonkaman]

This, so much this. I think I posted here after the KK or Waterford game not sure, three times Harnedy got the ball and looked for a short handpass in stead of heading to goal or shooting like he would have done last year. It seems ingrained this year that they look for the pass first rather than going forward. Heads up hurling is lost on this team.

Its a killer to see it. Happened a number of times at the weekend as well, watching the half backs bursting out, in possession, and realising there was no one on the shoulder. So rather than play the pass into the forwards they check back to find a hand pass somewhere and with that all of the momentum is gone again

I would need to watch back (haven't had the heart to) but Im sure that Harnedy was hand passed the sliotar at one point about 10 mins into the 2nd half somewhere around the 65. He had about 10m on any other player and a handy point off the left was on all day long. You could see he took that second to think about the next hand pass, delayed the strike and then dropped a half hearted hand pass that was never on when the space closed.. turnover