Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Corkfan82]

I think we had enough quality to beat Waterford yesterday. Thats what so disappointing. There is more in this Cork team, not AI champions more but competitive contenders.

The 2 goals came from cork players at wing back who should not be there, TOC for goal 2. Coleman for goal 1. Stewie wonder could see this after Tony Kelly cleaned TOC last year.

Lehane would not be selected in any top hurling team never mind in a significant center forward position. This is amateur from P Ryan and selectors.

On Lehane, most top forwards if they miss the first 2 shots will start passing the ball or try to win a free, common sense stuff to get them into the game, not our Lehane. Another 2 wides after...Its amateur stuff.

 

[Hurlywurly]

Maybe lack of fight is the wrong description, given as you’ve mentioned, they did well to come back into the game after being down a man. Lack of physicality and ball-winners might be more accurate as both Waterford goals came from high balls launched down on our half back line.

O’Connell and Coleman are great hurlers (and could do a good job at mf) but they are two of the smaller half-backs playing intercounty hurling and never looked like owning those situations in the air leading up to the goals. The Limerick or Clare half-backs are all big men who back themselves to win at least 60/70% of those types of high balls.

Also would point out that Waterford, like ourselves, have one of the smaller middle-8s in modern hurling, and yet they managed to win 66% of their puck-outs and we could only manage to win 54% of our puck-outs. You can’t give Limerick those sort of numbers as they won’t miss 40% of their shots like Waterford did yesterday. Also, If we’re struggling to win puck-outs and contain the Waterford forwards in the air, what will happen when we face the likes of Hegarty, Hayes and co. in a Limerick game?

I see where you're coming from.

Can't be thinking about Limerick when we're set for a showdown with Clare though.

Decisions for P Ryan.
Bring NOL back in?
Half back line of Millerick, Joyce and R Downey?
Midfield?
Coleman & Fitzgibbon?
What about TOC?
Half forward line
Dalton, ROF, Barrett? Or should Harnedy start?
FF line,
No decision to make re Connolly, first name on the team sheet.
After that? Hayes? Hoggie?
Wouldn't start JOC v Clare as he has struggled first half with them before.
Hoping to God that Kingston hits a patch of good form.

 

[Instabroke]

No the referee had nothing at all to to with ouperformance,halfback line and half forward line taken to the cleaners.

Agree with this, a passive half back line is not a good thing. They hardly stopped a ball going though, and once more there was a constant threat of runners down the middle, I just can't understand that. A half backs first job must stop the ball getting through to the real danger area's.
Harnedy clipped over a few scores and tried hard to be fair to him.
We still on for a strike for the Clare game ?

 

[Thanks]

James Owens is ref for Cork Clare

 

[Hurlywurly]

On another note how did ye fare getting out of the place it was almost 8.30 before i hit Dungarvan for grub.

3.5 hours to get from Waterford to Cork city.
Didn't think through the parking situation.
Great to see so many travelled though and the sun made it somehow less miserable of a journey back home.
And feckers from all counties whinge about coming to PuC.

 

[Rekcuf]

Difference yesterday was a coach who gets most from his players versus one who doesn't. County board should move mountains to get Davy in next year if he leaves Waterford. He is a proven winner and let's face it we are heading towards 20 years without an all Ireland and have forgotten how to win.

 

[The Duke]

Many good and thoughtful observations already posted. For what it’s worth, a few of my own:

1. Congrats to Waterford. Well deserved and must be particularly satisfying after all the rubbish written and said about the players and management over the last few weeks.

2. The obvious failings of Cork have been extensively outlined here already; no point in rehashing them. A number of positives too it had to be said. Barrett; Fitzy; Connolly and O’donoghue all had variously good games.

3. I think Pat and the selectors have to be bold for next weekend. While it is easy to call for xyz young lads to be included it does have to be done in a measured way. You are otherwise unfairly setting up these young lads to fail and risk damaging them in the longer term. They need the right support and experience around them. Having said that I personally think there is a case for E Downey, E Roche, B Roche, E Twomey & B Hayes to come into the team. Obviously not realistic for all to come in but I would think it reasonable that at least two from that list could be named. As others have mentioned I think it would be unfair to drop S Twomey, I would think he should come into the half forward line. I’m also not discounting the more seasoned panellists who could come in, the likes of Dalton (injury status?), Tim and Robbie.

4. All is not lost. We don’t have time to overly dwell on the obvious negatives from yesterday. The focus now needs to be on getting the players back into the right mental and emotional pitch. And on getting fresh blood into the team. A decidedly different task yes but not impossible. Win next week and we can start looking forward again. I also think with a more competitive Waterford in the mix that the points needed to get out of Munster will be a bit lower this year. Maybe.

5. Leinster hurling championship is a complete joke. The fact that three counties come out of each provincial group is laughable. Not the fault of any of the competing countries, but still. Is there a case for the fourth Munster team having a playoff with the third placed Leinster team?

6. I don’t want to hear any bollocks from other counties about the ordeal of travelling to Cork / SVPuC for a match. I left cork yesterday at 12 Noon. Getting through the endless number of roundabouts in Dungarvan nearly tipped me over the edge. Took me almost 3 hours to get to Waterford. Maybe it’s just me and I made a balls of it…? Then getting into the stadium was a nightmare; three stiles open for the main stand and the Keane road end and it took 20+ mins to process a group of about 30 ppl ahead of me. It was so bad.

7. I think we will beat Clare next weekend. If we cannot get ourselves up for that after Ennis last year and their whining about travelling to Cork. We might as well give them something more to whine about.

 

[jimmym]

If Clare play close to potential they will beat us,

 

[CB12]

Loads of focus on the older lads which is fair enough but I’d be more worried about the Coleman, Fitzgibbon, ROF generation who have been left behind massively in the modern game. They should be at their peak dominating those games but years of bad coaching and poor mentality has them looking really average. If Ciarán Joyce is lucky he might avoid the same fate but if we keep putting the same lads in charge he won’t. Pat Ryan was a selector with Kingston in 2016 FFS. We are crying out for something completely different.

 

[SoundMan]

The crucial factor in 1990 final was Jim Cashman recovering from a torrid first half on Cooney, Management were going to
substitute him H/T But said they would give him ten minutes,

I think the crucial factor in 1990 final was Muller going in on Keady who'd been absolutely lording it in the first half. Cooney had done some damage too but it was a glorious day of open hurling yet our forwards were misfiring a bit. Muller sorting out "the big I am" Keady, and our forwards came alive in the last 20 minutes, including one John Fitzgibbon getting 2-1 off multiple All Star winner Peter Finnerty in that phase.

And that's what Cork setups had in abundance down the years - cuteness on the line to make changes, not necessarily substitutions, that would lift a number of players at the same time. I thought Pat Ryan and his mentors would have a bit of that cuteness by now. The performance against Waterford in the opening quarter just seemed to be bunny-in-the-headlights kinda stuff.

If things aren't working then you need to be proactive and make changes. Waterford were running through us for fun and at one stage we could barely keep the ball pucked out against them - age old problem of not being able to win our own puckout is as frustrating as it is mystifying that we've done little to address it. That's Waterford btw!

I've been a Pat Ryan fan here for a while and think that no matter who the Cork manager is they'd need to be given time. But yesterday has me severely questioning the selection, and more importantly the reaction on the line to what was unfolding on the pitch in front of them. Yes the players need to up their game, but by god our brains-trust on the line HAVE to get things right next week or it's going to be a very long summer for Cork fans watching other counties in the hurling championship