Russia's unjustifiable war of aggression in Ukraine

You are playing loose with facts, the fact of the matter is firstly there is no unpopularity to the Russian gvt plans for Ukraine much of that is played up in the West and there is a lot of turning this conflict into a democracy v dictatorship situation ignoring that the Russians only went in to stop the violence in the Donbass.
As for RT, that is a reputable site yes it is state sanctioned but that's how things are done in Russia, they don't have the crass commercialism of the west and oh yeah it was a mistake to ban it and Sputnik because it makes us as bad. We talk about free speech but than go and exercise censorship.
😂 😂 😂
 
Russian propaganda there is Ukrainian propaganda as well, Ukraine's human rights chief was sacked from her job for exaggerating rape claims of Russian soldiers, heard this from RT was not a mention of it in the so called free western world news.

Well, it was mentioned widely, it was here even posted by me, and was discussion with one denialist here about it too.
Ludmila Denisova was not a Human Rights Chief in Ukraine but ombudsman. She was sacked not for exaggerating violence but for giving too much details on those (the prosecutions are still on for those), she was not sacked actually for that but as she was a part of Poroshenko's troupe in Zelensky's government. They were trying to get rid of her for some time. And yes, there was plenty about it everywhere, mostly fixing crooked Russian narration.

Than you have the PROC acting as a conduit for all sorts of anti Russian bias,

It is not anti Russian bias - this is reality mate. I am really happy that totally ignorant Western world started seeing what Eastern Europe is shouting for decades.
Unfortunately it must have been war so some (not all) realized how Russians fucked them over. and actually still do it xD Look how much excitement Abramovich brought to troglodytes :) So many people were getting leftovers from the mafia table, they started to believe that they are someone and that Russia way is the only way. Dammit. Greed and stupidity.

I read some of the posts and the amount of times I hear posters calling on NATO to intervene and lambasting Scholz, Macron and Draghi for entertaining talks with Moscow is ridiculous.

Macron is making a clown of himself for the local-French reasons. He won presidential elections (that would be a drama if Le Pen and her ultra-right wing fuckards would get a hand on French nuclear armory). He failed miserably in parliament elections. Elections over - French started doing something after being poked by everyone around. Draghi has Five Stars party he needs to deal with first and even today there was a resignation in Italian gov. You would not hear it in RT... Scholtz? Even his own party is bitching on him and ridiculous politics which failed on all fronts. Germany will never be a leader in Europe after this - note my words. They are not reliable. Well they still do a lot I have to say, but they can way better. Even in Scholtz party there is plenty of angry people on him Merkel and Schroeder - mafia is out in the light. The three of them went to Kiev to get sweet selfies for their facebook ;) Draghi came out from nowhere, most people in Europe learned he is in Italy ;)

Let's put this to bed the only way the war will be resolved in through dialogue, a rocket through Putin's window won't solve this and besides even if and this would never happen but if Putin was deposed in a coup what stops the next Russian despot to follow through with his predecessors plans in Ukraine?

Nothing, that is why myself and plenty of others want Russians to bleed and then make them kill themselves in a civil war most preferably, so then the leftovers can be fenced and let them live in their own ocrish zoo :) Russians will only learn when they got their teeth kicked in - proven by centuries of successful teeth breaking :) But you will not see that in RT either. Russia is a mafia state, they should be eliminated, I agree that killing Putin will change a shit, Putin is a puppet himself. This mafia style country is ruled by KGB and GRU...

I sympathise with the Ukrainians, they are fighting bravely but I really believe we can't get ahead of ourselves, no way will the Ukrainians be able to push the Russians out of those Russian speaking regions, Scholz, Macron and Draghi are right to keep dialogue open with Moscow.

Well I can see the change in your comments since the very beginning of the thread(s). The trio should not sabotage destroying Russia. Giving Russians a hand and tryin to peacefully lead Russia to civilization has resulted in Georgia, Ukraine, fuel and food crisis shall I list more? Those barbarians are not worth civilized world attention different than showing them their spot and ensuring they will not attack anyone AGAIN. Russia only in last 30 years as RF was/is involved in 14 wars FOURTEEN. You can now start whataboutism about Americans, but everyone would prefer to be occupied by American than liberated by Russians.
In XXc Russia was involved in 59 conflicts. Only in one case they were openly attacked (1941). All the rest they were attacking or joining attackers.
Seriously, it is like believing the alcoholic that they will not drink and handling the keys to the off license to keep an eye on it while going for holidays ;)

edit: and I am not even considered a radical ;)
 
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Well, it was mentioned widely, it was here even posted by me, and was discussion with one denialist here about it too.
Ludmila Denisova was not a Human Rights Chief in Ukraine but ombudsman. She was sacked not for exaggerating violence but for giving too much details on those (the prosecutions are still on for those), she was not sacked actually for that but as she was a part of Poroshenko's troupe in Zelensky's government. They were trying to get rid of her for some time. And yes, there was plenty about it everywhere, mostly fixing crooked Russian narration.



It is not anti Russian bias - this is reality mate. I am really happy that totally ignorant Western world started seeing what Eastern Europe is shouting for decades.
Unfortunately it must have been war so some (not all) realized how Russians fucked them over.



Macron is making a clown of himself for the local-French reasons. He won presidential elections (that would be a drama if Le Pen and her ultra-right wing fuckards would get a hand on French nuclear armory). He failed miserably in parliament elections. Elections over - French started doing something after being poked by everyone around. Draghi has Five Stars party he needs to deal with first and even today there was a resignation in Italian gov. You would not hear it in RT... Scholtz? Even his own party is bitching on him and ridiculous politics which failed on all fronts. Germany will never be a leader in Europe after this - note my words. They are not reliable. Well they still do a lot I have to say, but they can way better. Even in Scholtz party there is plenty of angry people on him Merkel and Schroeder - mafia is out in the light. The three of them went to Kiev to get sweet selfies for their facebook ;) Draghi came out from nowhere, most people in Europe learned he is in Italy ;)



Nothing, that is why myself and plenty of others want Russians to bleed and then make them kill themselves in a civil war most preferably, so then the leftovers can be fenced and let them live in their own ocrish zoo :) Russians will only learn when they got their teeth kicked in - proven by centuries of successful teeth breaking :) But you will not see that in RT either. Russia is a mafia state, they should be eliminated, I agree that killing
Putin will change a shit, Putin is a puppet himself. This mafia style country is ruled by KGB and GRU...



Well I can see the change in your comments since the very beginning of the thread(s). The trio should not sabotage destroying Russia. Giving Russians a hand and tryin to peacefully lead Russia to civilization has resulted in Georgia, Ukraine, fuel and food crisis shall I list more? Those barbarians are not worth civilized world attention different than showing them their spot and ensuring they will not attack anyone AGAIN. Russia only in last 30 years as RF was/is involved in 14 wars FOURTEEN. You can now start whataboutism about Americans, but everyone would prefer to be occupied by American than liberated by Russians.
In XXc Russia was involved in 59 conflicts. Only in one case they were openly attacked (1941). All the rest they were attacking or joining attackers.
Seriously, it is like believing the alcoholic that they will not drink and handling the keys to the off license to keep an eye on it while going for holidays ;)
Ombudsmen, human rights chief, same difference fact is she exaggerated the extent of Russian involvement in war crimes and got sacked for it.
As for Scholz, Macron and Draghi they all have electorates to speak up for and Europeans don't want the lights to go out which they will because whether you or the PROC like it Europeans do business with Russia just like they do business with China and Gulf states, a bit of realpolitik please.
As for Russia being a mafia state, you could say the same for a lot of countries, Russians have known hardship and the capitalist West exploited a weakened Russia during the 90's. Russia sees itself like a great power just like Iran, Turkey, China and Britain, they all have egos that need stroking, nothing unusual about Russian nationalism.
 
I don't support the invasion, it was illadvised but to say Ukraine did not play a part in this is to be naive, Ukraine was going down the NATO route and to recall our very own history with Britain the British gvt did not want Ireland to be used as a backdoor for Germany in a European war that is why Britain wanted the treaty ports. Likewise Russia did not want Ukraine to be a staging ground for US weapons, during the Cold War the Americans and Soviets successfully had US missiles taken out of Turkey so as not to be used as a launching ground.
 
Ombudsmen, human rights chief, same difference fact is she exaggerated the extent of Russian involvement in war crimes and got sacked for it.

Now she was not exaggerating anything. When you understand. She was sacked officially for too many DETAILS on REAL and DOCUMENTED cases on which international PROSECUTION is taking place.

As for Scholz, Macron and Draghi they all have electorates to speak up for and Europeans don't want the lights to go out which they will because whether you or the PROC like it Europeans do business with Russia just like they do business with China and Gulf states, a bit of realpolitik.

Scholz, Macron and Draghi are not even knowing what they were doing. Their own electorates are not with them... Jaysus check it out somewhere else than RT ;)
China is cutting Russian oil and gas imports, India cancelled ALL huge Russian projects. Both will use as much as they can, not because they want to make the deal with Russia but those countries are known to be opportunistic... Gulf is sending LNG to Europe, Iran got sanctions lifted. You must be in some parallel world..
There will be no risk of "the lights to go out". Simply Scholtz and consortes are trying to save remainders of their "brilliant plan" to rule Europe with use of Russian resources. So they went to Kiev and they had an option: to get dishonor and be disgraced or have gas/oil. They chosen the first option, so the Russians added cancelling supplies as extra xD

As for Russia being a mafia state, you could say the same for a lot of countries,

Russia is a mafia state. They are not even hiding it xD Putin was colonel of KGB in DDR. Sure you can say that on other countries, but none of them have nuclear weapons.

Russians have known hardship and the capitalist West exploited a weakened Russia during the 90's.

What the fuck are you talking about. Seriously you have zero idea LOL. Russia was closed to the West, Russia was privatizing their national goods with oligarchs. There were no situations like in Poland for example when the Western companies were buying out competitors to shut them down. Sorry but this part of your comment is so riddiculous that I do not even know what to say. But definately you have imagination but no idea what Russia is and what was there in the 90s. LOL what a Russian propaganda, bad West is the cause of all bad things to poor Russians. What a fucking joke. When USSR collapsed their colonial type economy simply collapsed. They were not able to suck everything from the satellites. The oligarchs got huge money on Russia's goods and ruled the country, there was even an oligarch quasi war meanwhile in Russia.

Russia sees itself like a great power just like Iran, Turkey, China and Britain, they all of egos that need stroking, nothing unusual about Russian nationalism.

Iran? Great power? Turkey has huge army - but where is the power? You are putting China (communists) and Britain in the same pot - no comment on this as I think you are just trolling xD This is your projection, not much with the reality and unfortunately putting all those countries in line as mafia states doesnt prove your point but make it laughable ;)
Russia is not a great power. Russia being a great power is maskirovka.

I don't support the invasion, it was illadvised but to say Ukraine did not play a part in this is to be naive, Ukraine was going down the NATO route and to recall our very own history with Britain the British gvt did not want Ireland to be used as a backdoor for Germany in a European war that is why Britain wanted the treaty ports. Likewise Russia did not want Ukraine to be a staging ground for US weapons, during the Cold War the Americans and Soviets successfully had US missiles taken out of Turkey so as not to be used as a launching ground.

Do you even realize that NATO (American) rockets are in three minutes distance from Moscow and Petersburg (110km) RIGHT NOW and that if they would put anything of that type in Ukraine it would be FURTHER AWAY? That Russia has no means to stop NATO from totaling them in couple of days and that their only reserve is a nuke button? This is not ill vision, those are facts we already have seeing Russian "special operation". China is just waiting. Their army is shit, they lost 1/3 capabilities, their air force is shit, navy doesn't exist and they are forced to undust the T62 tanks... They almost completely lost all their experienced special forces. They are unable to conscript enough reserves, they dont even have spares for their existing equip and resurses are long time gone. They cannot keep two fronts in Ukraine and they suppose to be fighting NATO with success? Give me a break.
NATO did not push Ukraine to join, this is defensive pact, I know that if you are soaked with Russian propaganda it is hard to believe, but all new joiners decided to do it because of Russia, not NATO ;)
 
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Now she was not exaggerating anything. When you understand. She was sacked officially for too many DETAILS on REAL and DOCUMENTED cases on which international PROSECUTION is taking place.



Scholz, Macron and Draghi are now even knowing what they were doing. Their own electorates are not with them... Jaysus check it out somewhere else than RT ;)
China is cutting Russian oil and gas imports, India cancelled ALL huge Russian projects. Both will use as much as they can, not because they want to make the deal with Russia but those countries are known to be opportunistic... Gulf is sending LNG to Europe, Iran got sanctions lifted. You must be in some parallel world..
There will be no risk of "the lights to go out". Simply Scholtz and consortes are trying to save remainders of their "brilliant plan" to rule Europe with use of Russian resources. So they went to Kiev and they had an option: to get dishonor and be disgraced or have gas/oil. They chosen the first option, so the Russians added cancelling supplies as extra xD



Russia is a mafia state. They are not even hiding it xD Putin was colonel of KGB in DDR. Sure you can say that on other countries, but none of them have nuclear weapons.



What the fuck are you talking about. Seriously you have zero idea LOL. Russia was closed to the West, Russia was privatizing their national goods with oligarchs. There were no situations like in Poland for example when the Western companies were buying out competitors to shut them down. Sorry but this part of your comment is so riddiculous that I do not even know what to say. But definately you have imagination but no idea what Russia is and what was there in the 90s. LOL what a Russian propaganda, bad West is the cause of all bad things to poor Russians. What a fucking joke. When USSR collapsed their colonial type economy simply collapsed. They were not able to suck everything from the satellites. The oligarchs got huge money on Russia's goods and ruled the country, there was even an oligarch quasi war meanwhile in Russia.



Iran? Great power? Turkey has huge army - but where is the power? You are putting China (communists) and Britain in the same pot - no comment on this as I think you are just trolling xD This is your projection, not much with the reality and unfortunately putting all those countries in line as mafia states doesnt prove your point but make it laughable ;)
Russia is not a great power. Russia being a great power is maskirovka.



Do you even realize that NATO (American) rockets are in three minutes distance from Moscow and Petersburg (110km) RIGHT NOW and that if they would put anything of that type in Ukraine it would be FURTHER AWAY?
NATO did not push Ukraine to join, this is defensive pact, I know that if you are soaked with Russian propaganda it is hard to believe, but all new joiners decided to do it because of Russia, not NATO ;)
The Ombudsmen/ human rights chief made up stuff that has not yet been proven, interfered with an investigation for propaganda purposes.
The Mafioso style oligarchs got their fortunes doing deals with the West the now notorious Londongrad, Europe is a wash with dirty Russian money, you can thank the fall of the USSR and western capitalists benefiting from a liberalized Russian economy.
Yes I put Britain in the same bracket as Turkey and China, Turkey a regional power 2nd biggest army in NATO, Iran wants to join the nuclear club but America does not want that and Britain going it's own from an integrated Europe, no shortage of dick head nationalism once you see it for what it is an expression of national feeling you don't get afraid of it.
Russian nationalism is not the exception, there is nothing unnatural about Russian patriotism, remembering the war they fought in and boasting about Russian culture, it the same with other great powers.
 
American patriotism can be just as ugly as Russian extreme nationalism, the invasions, coups and assassinations they were involved in, hysterical anti communism and anti liberalism. Every nation has a dark side not just Russia but the western media portray Russia as somehow always in the wrong, hogwash. More times than not it's their own incompetence than Russian involvement. Russia has been accused of everything from Brexit to the success of Le Pen. Russia has become a poster boy for nefarious activity and it is incorrect.
 
The Ombudsmen/ human rights chief made up stuff that has not yet been proven, interfered with an investigation for propaganda purposes.

So you will be able to give some examples of it, right? Or just parroting Russian propaganda? No this is not true :)

The Mafioso style oligarchs got their fortunes doing deals with the West the now notorious Londongrad, Europe is a wash with dirty Russian money, you can thank the fall of the USSR and western capitalists benefiting from a liberalized Russian economy.

They were doing business with everyone willing to make the business. But it was them initiating the business not the mythical West.
Londongrad is nothing but Brits greedy on Russian money (they already regretting it). Do I say that this was not wrong? Pardon me, I am saying it from the very beginning that those slimy fuckers should pay for it. Well adding on top that this was London's City idea to pump money in the UK.
I am just smirking as I grow up in a country being puppet of USSR, you seriously think that oligarchs came out from nowhere and that Russian "elite" was never doing deals with the bad bad West? Wake up ;)

Yes I put Britain in the same bracket as Turkey and China, Turkey a regional power 2nd biggest army in NATO, Iran wants to join the nuclear club but America does not want that and Britain going it's own from an integrated Europe, no shortage of dick head nationalism once you see it for what it is an expression of national feeling you don't get afraid of it.

This is so ridiculous you should consider sending it to Ricky Gervais maybe he will use some of it on next Golden Globe ;)
Britain is not same bracket as Turkey. UK has nukes, has army and navy and... wait for it.... ECONOMY (global power)
Turkey has huge army, but the country is shit (ask Turks if you know any), they do not have nukes, Americans were having them there but as far as I remember those were moved when Erdogan decided to "inspect NATO base" some time ago. That was around 2018 I believe. (regional power)
China is not comparable with the other due to their size and the fact this is communist regime. (global power)
Iran, does not actually exist economically, they have regional army (so they still exist) I would not risk calling them a regional power at this stage. Americans lifted sanctions and are pushing to make deal with Iran on oil (which for example Poland, always having good relations with is using).

I think you just do not like those countries, that is why you were putting this nonsense here ;)

Russian nationalism is not the exception, there is nothing unnatural about Russian patriotism, remembering the war they fought in and boasting about Russian culture, it the same with other great powers.

This is pure propaganda mate :) You are confusing patriotism with fight for matushka Rassija against Nazis (they are always everywhere waiting in the bushes).
Patriotism in Russia is pure nationalism and imperialism nowadays. There are active neoNazis there supported by gov (like Wolf raiders). You say Russian patriotism, I say Russia is not monolith (never was) and Federal part is not all Russia as Russians would like to convince others. This topic is too broad for this discussion. LOL read some non government books from Russians you might learn something :)
Russian culture is a nice buzz word. Who would be that? Tchaikovsky, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, sure! Can you name any others and please name the ones living in Russia AFTER Tzar collapsed :) Just to remind you that was over 100 years ago and not much since. Culture like Slavic culture? LOL Russians are known as Mongoloids, they were raided by Mongols and they have not much apart from the language in common with Slavs. They were trying hard for centuries but they failed miserably. One of the reasons they hate Poland so much (1/3 of Tzar Russia economy, not to mention culture ;)) for daring to leave Russkiy Mir (aka partition of Poland).
There is a joke that the most valuable for Russian culture was Pole, his name was Felix Dzerzhinsky ;) There is a lot of joke on this topic. But the rule of thumb is that whoever Russians claim to be "theirs" it turns out it was centuries ago or was not Russian ;)

But on the side note. What has their alleged "high culture" to atrocities they are committing in Ukraine and other places?

American patriotism can be just as ugly as Russian extreme nationalism, the invasions, coups and assassinations they were involved in, hysterical anti communism and anti liberalism.

I will leave this part to your emotions ;) (edit: you even use RT language in describing it, cute)

Every nation has a dark side not just Russia but the western media portray Russia as somehow always in the wrong, hogwash. More times than not it's their own incompetence than Russian involvement. Russia has been accused of everything from Brexit to the success of Le Pen. Russia has become a poster boy for nefarious activity and it is incorrect.

Russia does it for centuries. The fact you have never heard about it doesnt make it non existent. Some people even grew up, lived and died on the other than yours side of the Iron Curtain, so you could not know!
Brexit: they pumped money in the campaign, funded Farage and UKiP, stirred nationalism, they got close relationship with Murdoch, they were pumping propaganda via RT and Sputnik. Oh I remember that cry of one migdet who's twitter was flagged as Russian troll ;)
Le Pen: how you will name then 100MLN EUR loan from the Russians via Hungarian banks pumped for their campaign recently? Not to mention Le Pen senior and his deals with Russians?

Throw some more false accusations :)
 
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and to add some value to the thread:

In his speech, the chancellor stressed that Germany not only took responsibility for its own security, but also for that of its allies. He said this was underlined by a €100 billion ($107 billion) upgrade of the Bundeswehr agreed by both houses of parliament.
"Security is the most fundamental promise that a state owes its citizens," Scholz said, citing a turning point in history.
"The German armed forces will be equipped so it can protect our country and our allies against any attack," Scholz told the parliament. "That is the standard for the new Bundeswehr."
[..]
A partnership with Moscow is "unimaginable for the foreseeable future with Putin's aggressive, imperialist Russia," he said.
[..]
The chancellor also said the reconstruction of Ukraine would be a "task for generations," referring to the Marshall Plan, a US initiative that provided billions of dollars to rebuild Western Europe after World War II. He said he had invited Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to participate in the G7 summit starting this Sunday, to "agree on what such a 'Marshall Plan for Ukraine' would look like."

Source: https://www.dw.com/en/olaf-scholz-nato-partners-can-rely-on-germany/a-62216259

"Ukraine is getting weapons that it especially needs at this stage of the war," he said.
According to Scholz, Germany supplies weapons - "today and in the future."
Ukraine has every right to defend itself against Russia, he added.
"And it is our duty as European neighbors, as defenders of law and freedom, as friends and partners of Ukraine - to support them as best we can," the German Chancellor said.
"We will continue to support Ukraine en masse - financially, economically, humanitarianly, politically and, last but not least, by supplying weapons," Scholz said, adding: "So far Ukraine needs our support."

Source: https://censor.net/en/n3349571
https://censor.net/en/news/3349571/germany_will_continue_to_supply_ukraine_with_weapons_scholz

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Slovenian M80A infantry fighting vehicles in Ukraine

22.06.2022 09:31 PRINT PDF


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Slovenian M80A infantry fighting vehicles during rail transport to Ukraine Photo. Ukraine Weapons Tracker, Twitter

Another batch of heavy military equipment has reached Ukraine, this time the Slovenian M-80A infantry fighting vehicles. It is the Yugoslav of the corresponding well-known BMP-1, but with many changes incl. other weapons.

The transfer of 35 BVP M-80A BVP to Ukraine was announced by the Slovenian Minister of Defense, Marjan Å arec, during the third meeting of the Contact Group for the Defense of Ukraine, which took place in Brussels on June 15, 2022.

According to the Military Balance 2021, the Slovenian army has a total of 46 BVP M-80As, of which 14 were in service and 32 were in storage. Citing information from the "24UR" website, Slovenia donated 32 tracked armored IFVs to Ukraine, which were stored for several years in military depots near Pivka, a city close to the southwestern border of Slovenia and northeastern Italy. The cars probably come from warehouses, and three more were taken from the line, however, according to many sources, Slovenia was to receive guarantees from the US to receive vehicles that would be replacements for the cars delivered to Ukraine.
The BVP M-80 is a tracked infantry fighting vehicle of Yugoslav production, produced from the 1980s until the fall of the country in the 1990s. The layout of the vehicle is very similar to the Soviet / Russian BMP-1 with the driver sitting at the front on the left side of the hull and the powerplant on the right side, the turret located in the center of the hull and the landing compartment at the rear. The vehicle has a crew of three, including driver, commander and gunner, and can carry up to seven infantry soldiers.

However, the hull top is higher than the Soviet / Russian counterpart. Additionally, the main armament is the 20 mm M55 automatic cannon (not the 2A28 Grom gun launcher), one 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun and two 9M14 Malutka anti-tank guided missile launchers mounted on the right side of the turret. Standard vehicle equipment includes ABC protection system, fire protection system, heating and drainage system. The vehicle is powered by a Daimler Benz OM-403 engine with 320 HP. It can travel at a maximum road speed of 65 km / h with a maximum range of 500 km. Thus, in many respects, these cars are better than their Russian counterparts, having, among others, greater firepower by equipping a 20mm autocannon instead of the archaic 2A28,

source: defence24
 
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