Russia's unjustifiable war of aggression in Ukraine

[Dr. Aaoouh]

God lads, is it all worth it. Obviously 2 schools of thought on this thread. It's all Russia unprovoked aggressor or Russia has been backed in to a corner by NATO expansion and US meddling in Ukraine.

Leaving our who is right and wrong here because, no point in rehashing that debate, but with hundreds of thousands dead how we should surely be asking how do we stop the slaughter.

These are real people, imagine for a second your son or daughters were killed in the conflict, the impact that would have on your life of losing a child. Or if they were missing limbs or injured to a point were they couldn't live an active life. This is happening to 100's of thousands in Ukraine (and indeed in Gaza). People seem to follow far away wars like sports - I hope our team is winning sort of mentality, so far from the horrors of what war must be like.

I wonder what would the US do if they were losing a war that the Russians were openly funding? Would they go nuclear if it came to a point when the US was about to fall. Very likely. Will Russia do the same if this war goes against them, again, very likely, so where is the end game?

Talking eventually after millions have been killed? or World War 3? Is there an alternative ending?

Since Putin himself is on record denying that Ukraine is a country or a culture and Ukrainian an actual language, then yes, I'd say it's worth it.

 

[dahayeser]

Since Putin himself is on record denying that Ukraine is a country or a culture and Ukrainian an actual language, then yes, I'd say it's worth it.

Very easy to say when you are here in Cork pontificating on a message board.

Your son is killed fighting on the front line, another one maimed, you have another lad, under 27 and exempted from the draft. Senator Lindsey Graham over in the US has a problem with that and wants you to send him to the front line too. Russians are dying, he says, best money we ever spent!

At some point do you not question what's the end game? It's worth it for Lindsey and co but they are as far away from the front line as we are on this message board. Negotiating for the same terms as were on the table at the start of the war is a win for him, loads of Russians have been killed. The man who's family have been blown to pieces might have a different prospective.

Do you actually see Russia being beaten out of Ukraine, accepting defeat and NATO on their doorstep? Maybe they will agree to start funding the rebuilding of a Ukraine too.

There is no way out of this without negotiating at some point. How high is the body count before people talking peace and what has been gained and lost for the people of Ukraine for delaying those peace talks?

 

[Handy Run]

Very easy to say when you are here in Cork pontificating on a message board.

Your son is killed fighting on the front line, another one maimed, you have another lad, under 27 and exempted from the draft. Senator Lindsey Graham over in the US has a problem with that and wants you to send him to the front line too. Russians are dying, he says, best money we ever spent!

At some point do you not question what's the end game? It's worth it for Lindsey and co but they are as far away from the front line as we are on this message board. Negotiating for the same terms as were on the table at the start of the war is a win for him, loads of Russians have been killed. The man who's family have been blown to pieces might have a different prospective.

Do you actually see Russia being beaten out of Ukraine, accepting defeat and NATO on their doorstep? Maybe they will agree to start funding the rebuilding of a Ukraine too.

There is no way out of this without negotiating at some point. How high is the body count before people talking peace and what has been gained and lost for the people of Ukraine for delaying those peace talks?

Stfu silky

 

[Dr. Aaoouh]

Very easy to say when you are here in Cork pontificating on a message board.

Your son is killed fighting on the front line, another one maimed, you have another lad, under 27 and exempted from the draft. Senator Lindsey Graham over in the US has a problem with that and wants you to send him to the front line too. Russians are dying, he says, best money we ever spent!

At some point do you not question what's the end game? It's worth it for Lindsey and co but they are as far away from the front line as we are on this message board. Negotiating for the same terms as were on the table at the start of the war is a win for him, loads of Russians have been killed. The man who's family have been blown to pieces might have a different prospective.

Do you actually see Russia being beaten out of Ukraine, accepting defeat and NATO on their doorstep? Maybe they will agree to start funding the rebuilding of a Ukraine too.

There is no way out of this without negotiating at some point. How high is the body count before people talking peace and what has been gained and lost for the people of Ukraine for delaying those peace talks?

Looks like you covered all the current Russian talking points here. The US (and NATO) are fighting a proxy war against Russia using Ukrainian troops in order to kill as many Russians as possible. Russia is fighting to keep NATO off its doorstep because NATO is simply a massive conspiracy to attack Russia. The war keeps going because, and only because, the Ukrainians won't "negotiate".

Putin has very clearly, and on many occasions, said that Ukraine is not a country. He thinks he's entitled to own it. So Ukraine is fighting for its existence. Even if Ukraine agreed to allow Russia to keep what they have occupied so far, Putin would not let them be a sovereign country. He claims that they are part of his "sphere of influence", an obsolete 19th century political term, which Putin believes should give him extra rights. Since he would never, in any negotiation, allow Ukraine to join NATO, they would become a Russian satellite, which next to outright annexation is what he has stated he wants. Your "argument" is the same one that the powerful aggressor always makes. Think of the widows and orphans.

NATO/US is not and has never been interested in attacking Russia. (And NATO is already on "Russia's doorstep" in any case). What NATO/US wants is to keep Russia from attacking whoever they want. Russia is a declining economy. If they want to become a world power, they are going to have to do it the normal way and create a world economy.

 

[Barry K O Bama]

I think Macron's threat of troop deployment is significant :-

Macron knows that the US cannot be relied upon anymore. He sees the threat from the far right also in Europe- Le Pen, Orban etc.

This is about leverage against Putin and acceptable off ramps for all parties.

Putin can't use Nukes ( Xi and the BRICS Cabal will not entertain this) The West can't deployment troops but both sides can make threats.

I think we are setting the ground work for negotiations.

 

[Handy Run]

Yanks telling Ukraine to lay off the refinery hits. What are they going to do? Not send the support they're already not sending?

If they don't want Ukraine using the only means available to them to hurt Russia, then give them something else. Otherwise, off you fuck you fat cunts.

 

[dahayeser]

Looks like you covered all the current Russian talking points here. The US (and NATO) are fighting a proxy war against Russia using Ukrainian troops in order to kill as many Russians as possible. Russia is fighting to keep NATO off its doorstep because NATO is simply a massive conspiracy to attack Russia. The war keeps going because, and only because, the Ukrainians won't "negotiate".

Putin has very clearly, and on many occasions, said that Ukraine is not a country. He thinks he's entitled to own it. So Ukraine is fighting for its existence. Even if Ukraine agreed to allow Russia to keep what they have occupied so far, Putin would not let them be a sovereign country. He claims that they are part of his "sphere of influence", an obsolete 19th century political term, which Putin believes should give him extra rights. Since he would never, in any negotiation, allow Ukraine to join NATO, they would become a Russian satellite, which next to outright annexation is what he has stated he wants. Your "argument" is the same one that the powerful aggressor always makes. Think of the widows and orphans.

NATO/US is not and has never been interested in attacking Russia. (And NATO is already on "Russia's doorstep" in any case). What NATO/US wants is to keep Russia from attacking whoever they want. Russia is a declining economy. If they want to become a world power, they are going to have to do it the normal way and create a world economy.

It doesn't matter what Putin wants or says. Russian talking points will have to be considered at the negotiating table and Putin will have to compromise too. That's how wars end.

The unfortunate thing it that that compromise probably isn't going to be as good for Ukraine now as it would have been before a country was decimated and hundreds of thousands of lives were lost. Even on a message board like this it's hard to say that loss of live was worth it for no gain.

Answer me how you see this ending. Russia defeated on their own door step? Do they just accept quietly accept that defeat? Any timeline?

 

[an liathroid beag]

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That must be one of the most cynical use of the veto ever

 

[an liathroid beag]

It doesn't matter what Putin wants or says. Russian talking points will have to be considered at the negotiating table and Putin will have to compromise too. That's how wars end.

The unfortunate thing it that that compromise probably isn't going to be as good for Ukraine now as it would have been before a country was decimated and hundreds of thousands of lives were lost. Even on a message board like this it's hard to say that loss of live was worth it for no gain.

Answer me how you see this ending. Russia defeated on their own door step? Do they just accept quietly accept that defeat? Any timeline?

You sound like that Putin bot aka Silky!

 

[BlarneyMan]

Gunfire and explosion reported at concert hall in Russia’s Moscow

This is a breaking news story, more details to follow.

www.aljazeera.com

Oh no