Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Crankycorner]

Fellas now accused of being out personally to get Pat Ryan for having criticism of or questioning Pat Ryan.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Not only did Kingston and Meyler get criticised they also suffered abuse here, on Twitter/X, Facebook and so on.
People said give Pat Ryan the benefit of the doubt last year given his record so people said ok. We've won one game in 6 championship games now it's simply not good enough.
People asked what the bar is, the bar is winning a Munster Final or getting to an All -Ireland Semi Final or Final. Munster Title is impossible and All Ireland series is unlikely but not impossible.. (still have hope)
Both Kingston and Meyler guided us to Munster titles and in Meylers case an All Ireland Semi and Kingstons case a final.
That is the standard Pat Ryan should be held account for especially seeing as he guided the 20's to Titles and had success at club.
Pat Ryan is making tactical and positional errors, (some of the same Meyler and Kingston made) do players have an off game absolutely and they can changed out for someone in better form, but there's no excusing tactical and positional errors. Pat went with changes we welcomed but you could see some lads were bolloxed and didn't have the legs come 40 mins. They needed to be pulled there and then. Some of subs when made were too late or the wrong change in my opinion, criminal Tommy O Connell did not come on.
Pat Ryan might be a great coach/selector but as of now he's just not up to it as Senior Manager.
If we get to All - Ireland final I will apologise and eat my words.

But it's time we stopped excusing Management as a lot of players died in their boots Sunday and we could expect anymore of them.

A lot of sense spoken there.

 

[Hurlywurly]

I wouldn't be advocating for them to be brought on v Limerick. I'd like to see them on the matchday panel for that that game with possibly a view to giving maybe Cunningham a 10 or 15 minute run v Tipp the following week.

Tipp game will most likely be a dead rubber so possibly a chance to start Saunderson in that game as well.

Looking forward to next year while there doesn't need to be massive changes to the panel there certainly needs to be 3 if not 4 or even 5 hard calls made regarding guys who would be seen as leaders. Quite possibly some of these will go themselves.

Also a call needs to be made on Mark Colemans role? What is he? A defender, a midfielder?a forward? Personally I think he's a forward. If Ryan and Co think he's a defender that's fine but they need to start drilling into him to defend first, play loose ball second.

In fairness to Pat Ryan his team has never rolled over. I will give him credit for that. They keep going and have always died with their boots on for him. That's a good trait in a group of players.

Liam Cahill can't say the same thing or even Derek Lyng.

However it's clear their is an issue in the backroom team given the injury rate and the amount of chopping and changing. Maybe Pat Ryan should drop 2 of his selectors. 2 less voices to interfere in his thinking?????

Food for thought there for sure.
In hindsight, though I was delighted to see Coleman back on the teamsheet v Waterford, his preparation can't have been optimum and it might have been wiser starting the same HF line that were doing well towards the back end of the league.
Hindsight is pretty useless though.

A million ifs..
but.... IF Tipp beat Waterford all heads will be in a better place for the game v Limerick.

 

[AllCork32]

Hate to say it but maybe an Age Limit on the terrace? Or u16 accompanied by an adult. There was a large number of youths that spent their time trying to get into the terrace when it was full. Hard to believe the 35000 attendance figure posted online.

Ah jesus christ, leave the young fellas have a bit a craic ffs.

 

[North Cork]

I never said Cunningham was the saviour. Nor do I think we have a better hand currently then what we had v Clare.

I'm saying the championship is as good as done for us now and maybe we should start our rebuild sooner rather then later.

You're correct that the teams put out in both championship games had the capability to win both games. But they didn't. The team picked V Clare was a far more balanced and superior outfit to the team picked v Waterford. 6 changes in the space of a week. Why was that? Is it that after 2 years in the job Pat still doesn't have a handle on what his best 15 are?

I'm not being a smartass BBAWS, you clearly know your hurling, what do you think Pat Ryan should do or can do to see Cork improve over the coming 2 games?

If I thought that we genuinely did not have the talent to beat Waterford or Clare then defeat would be easier to accept... but I genuinely don't believe that.

Last year the strongest team was not picked until the last championship game... but that was understandable as it was the first year for management.

This year however is their second year and yet they went back to players they first selected last year and were forced to drop in later games.
On top of this they had league in 2024 with a host of different players playing and still seemed to have learned very little. The backs looked like a settled unit but that was changed.
In particular I think the Roche twins have been treated poorly this year.
It looks to me as if it will be the third or maybe fourth game when they settle again on their best team .
However I must admit the team against Clare certainly did show what it could do at times and again that is what causes my upset.
If, by some miracle, we were to get through and had to play Clare or Waterford again I would be happy to do so with our best team out.

We need a defensive structure to be put in place as I don't think we have any.
Even if we had been beaten by Waterford and Clare with a team of ten players with under 20 medals it would be easier to accept defeat because you could see that a team for the future is being put together but against Waterford we started with four players over 30.

For me at the moment , it is very disappointing.

I have started to look forward to the team against Limerick but honestly have no clue who will be kept or who will be dropped.
I would not be surprised to see Brian Roche come straight into the team after doing so well against Limerick last year.

 

[ThatFella]

Ah jesus christ, leave the young fellas have a bit a craic ffs.

All for young fellas having craic we were all there.
But the carry on out of 16 year olds over the last few years are inexcusable.
Drinking bottles of vodka before a match, when I was that age if we snuck a few pints we were delighted.
The carry on with flares and smoke bombs are now a disgrace, when they see Guards running at them they THROW THE FLARES ONTOP OF THEIR FELLOW SUPPORTERS IN FRONT OF THEM.
I saw several people being escorted by security/first aid down the tunnel at Blackrock End/North Stand to receive treatment for smoke inhalition or burn marks.

Due to their carry on the bars in turn are closed in the Terraces as proactive measure to try deal with it, this is actually losing Cork GAA profit. A few hundred teenagers are the reason few thousand adults can't get a pint in the Terraces.
Few hundred teenagers outside the ground trying to get in cause they didn't have a ticket for Blackrock end.

 

[Vladimir The Bear]

First off, I wasn’t taking a dig at you. Was being generalist as there’s been a lot of talk about Cunningham here but the ship has sailed for 2024. He needs to go now and have a stormer of a club championship and leave management with no choice next time around.

For the next game I think Pat should work on game management towards the last 20 mins. The team that started last day out would be fine again. You can make a case for some positional changes or maybe swapping one or 2 in. But overall the team should be similar. If taking a punt I would go with introducing ROF from the start. Was bad last week but those minutes will stand to him.

Biggest thing for me is we look at our shape and strengths of our lines that started last day out, and ask how we finish with that. So in the FB line I would have GM and ER as cover, HB Damien, MF TOC and BR, HF Twomey and you could even deploy TOC and BR here if needed. Plenty of options on the inside.

Ours subs should slot in seamlessly and bring energy which hasn’t been happening.

If I was being really bold I would play a MF trip of TOC, Joyce and E Twomey. Push Fitz CF and flanked by DD and SH. SB would lose out E Roche would play FB. E Downey at 6.

I’ll bring back our golden years when they give me a chance boi!

Fair play.

Nothing said there that I would disagree with. Where if anywhere would you play Mark Coleman? And what's your take on Pa Collins in goal?

 

[Gregory_Mike]

Cranky made insinuations and comments of a personal nature about PR after the Waterford game

Did he?

 

[Vladimir The Bear]

If I thought that we genuinely did not have the talent to beat Waterford or Clare then defeat would be easier to accept... but I genuinely don't believe that.

Last year the strongest team was not picked until the last championship game... but that was understandable as it was the first year for management.

This year however is their second year and yet they went back to players they first selected last year and were forced to drop in later games.
On top of this they had league in 2024 with a host of different players playing and still seemed to have learned very little. The backs looked like a settled unit but that was changed.
In particular I think the Roche twins have been treated poorly this year.
It looks to me as if it will be the third or maybe fourth game when they settle again on their best team .
However I must admit the team against Clare certainly did show what it could do at times and again that is what causes my upset.
If, by some miracle, we were to get through and had to play Clare or Waterford again I would be happy to do so with our best team out.

We need a defensive structure to be put in place as I don't think we have any.
Even if we had been beaten by Waterford and Clare with a team of ten players with under 20 medals it would be easier to accept defeat because you could see that a team for the future is being put together but against Waterford we started with four players over 30.

For me at the moment , it is very disappointing.

I have started to look forward to the team against Limerick but honestly have no clue who will be kept or who will be dropped.
I would not be surprised to see Brian Roche come straight into the team after doing so well against Limerick last year.

That's the crux of it for me really. I have to say I think the players are all dieing with there boots on and keep going to the end.
However I just cannot understand how management still seem to have no idea of their best 15.
13 if not 14 of that team should be nailed down by the last league game every year. We should really only be arguing over who gets the last spot. Instead as you said we chop and change and then go back to what we chopped and changed from first day.

I repeat what I said earlier. Is our management team too big and do too many selectors have a say. Should Pat Ryan drop a few selectors in the off season.

 

[BBAWS.]

Fair play.

Nothing said there that I would disagree with. Where if anywhere would you play Mark Coleman? And what's your take on Pa Collins in goal?

Manifesting that Coleman wins us the game next week. But I would only bring him in when Gillane gets sent off as the free man. All jokes aside, he’s down the pecking order for me based on performances of late.

I don’t believe we have a better keeper than Collins ready to start now so I would have him see out the year in goals.

 

[Corkfan82]

And thats it, we are basing everything off of what we have seen. We have seen what 4/5 hours since January. The management are picking their team based on many hundreds of hours. The management are picking what they believe is their best team based on what they have seen.

Roche, he seemed to be someone that we all hoped would really push on this year for whatever reason he either hasn't or hasn't been given the chance. TOC is one that has really pushed on, but he had a poor game against Waterford and IMO was harshly (all considered) dropped for Clare. We aren't privy to whats going, some players have of course left the panel and while that smacks of poor man management there are so many other factors to consider. You are 22/23 years old you have to quite literally put your whole life on hold and be prepared to train 6 times a week. Doing all of the above still does not guarantee you a spot on the team. Leaving the panel might be seen as heresy or an absolute hammer blow, but for some lads (and without questioning their commitment ) isn't as difficult a decision as some might think.

Fair points again. You also have to consider that some lads train great and dont produce in c'ship vs the opposite. I just want to see more workers developed and selected instead of nice hurlers who physically struggle to compete. After the last 2 games and the treatment of TOC, B Roche and S Twomey, its so disappointing.