Cork Hurlers - Part 2

Have had a flick through the last few pages and the negativity is way over the top.

We had a poor performance down in Walsh Park - 6 changes were made and a dramatically improved performance was needed, and that's what we got.

We were playing the 2nd best team in the country (they might prove to the be the best yet this year) and definitely the best attacking team in the country, and I think we were the better team on balance when it was 15v15. Kind of a pointless comment but I genuinely believe that we would have gone on and won it without the sending off.

Just to breakdown the changes first:
Eoin Downey, Niall O'Leary, Tim O'Mahony into the back line and I thought the 3 of them put in huge shifts. I've been critical of NOL but he put in a big performance. Same with ED - he did a great on Aidan MacCarthy overall, great paw and needs to stay in the team. Tim had a real tough one against Duggan, and there was an obvious switch to be made, but I thought he showed his value to the team, we have more fire and aggression as a team when he's on the field.

Ethan Twomey, Dalton, Hayes also did well. Hayes should have done more with a few balls in the first half, Adam Hogan was on top but Dalton was excellent (himself and TOM are our most aggressive players) - we lost something when he went off unfortunately. E Twomey will have got loads out of that - he got on plenty ball, he's a super athlete and he'll keep on getting better.

The pressure was on Hoggie and Harnedy of course after thursday evening's team announcement. Hoggie was excellent. Clare don't have a number 4 (this is going to keep catching them) and Hoggie took advantage. Harnedy did well initially and in fairness he was everywhere but Ryan got on top eventually. But fair fucks to the 2 boys - they both delivered a performance.

So what went right and what went wrong?
The first 45 minutes were exactly what we wanted. We moved the ball quickly, we were looking for the right lads at the right time, we were accurate. Most importantly, we got bodies back to support the full back line and conceded frees when we needed.

Barrett was pulling Conlon all over the place (although he never did the damage that he should have done), Connolly had Cleary on a yellow, Darragh was finding space, Joyce and Rob Downey hurling well. We had the Clare defence in bother and probably should have another 2 goals (the Darragh chance and Barrett chance had to be converted). Work-rate was excellent. Only thing you could fault in the first two thirds of the game were the puc-outs, Collins was under-hitting too many and it kept Clare in the game in that period. Clare weren't playing poorly at all at this stage so I think it's important to note we are at the level required when we're on it.

What went wrong was all preventable in my opinion. We got a bit caught up in that early second half excitement and our half back line and midfield totally lost their shape and followed the Clare half forwards out the field like an u14 team really. It was incredibly difficult for our full back line to manage 1 on 1s in that amount of space. This was totally different to the first half. To compound that we made poor changes. The 2 Roches should have been on the bench and Brian should have replaced Twomey or Dalton, and Eoin (who did really well in Ennis in March) should have replaced SOD (or if you wanted to keep SOD on the pitch, get him out of that full back line and into the middle of the field). You can't go around after Shane O'Donnell and Rodgers on a yellow card.

Those giving out about the second yellow I'd say haven't played in many high intensity matches. It's a split second thing and I think if that's Clare v Limerick reffed by Keenan or KK v Galway reffed by Gordon its either play on or maybe a free, it's a harsh yellow. I've said for ages that SOD shouldn't be in the corner, and I didn't see anything yesterday to change my mind on that but I wouldn't be hard on him for the second yellow. He shouldn't have been on Shane O'Donnell at that stage and it was complete madness leaving him 1v1 on him on several occasions while on a yellow. Watch Limerick playing Shane O'Donnell - they never leave anyone 1v1 on him, they know you need a second defender in there immediately, probably the most dangerous forward in the country along with Gillane.

Other changes didn't work either. ROF is unfit and out of form. Coleman did ok. Meade shouldn't be on the match day panel. There are small changes that are staring us in the face that can make that difference - others have mentioned it already but we need to pick a midfield that help us to concede less. When was the last time you saw a Cork number 8 or 9 getting in a hook to stop a goal, or just making a tackle in our 21?

Clare played some super hurling, and they're missing 2 top players so they are a serious side. We were better than them for a good chunk of it but ultimately we shot ourselves in the foot by not prioritising how we would stop them as the game played out.

Players and management got a lot right yesterday, the players gave absolutely everything, and it was fantastic to see great attacking hurling by Cork down the pairc in a game of the highest quality. Smarter defensive thinking about positioning and personnel would have got us over the line.
 
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Have had a flick through the last few pages and the negativity is way over the top.

We had a poor performance down in Walsh Park - 6 changes were made and a dramatically improved performance was needed, and that's what we got.

We were playing the 2nd best team in the country (they might prove to the be the best yet this year) and definitely the best attacking team in the country, and I think we were the better team on balance when it was 15v15. Kind of a pointless comment but I genuinely believe that we would have gone on and won it without the sending off.

Just to breakdown the changes first:
Eoin Downey, Niall O'Leary, Tim O'Mahony into the back line and I thought the 3 of them put in huge shifts. I've been critical of NOL but he put in a big performance. Same with ED - he did a great on Aidan MacCarthy overall, great paw and needs to stay in the team. Tim had a real tough one against Duggan, and there was an obvious switch to be made, but I thought he showed his value to the team, we have more fire and aggression as a team when he's on the field.

Ethan Twomey, Dalton, Hayes also did well. Hayes should have done more with a few balls in the first half, Adam Hogan was on top but Dalton was excellent (himself and TOM are our most aggressive players) - we lost something when he went off unfortunately. E Twomey will have got loads out of that - he got on plenty ball, he's a super athlete and he'll keep on getting better.

The pressure was on Hoggie and Harnedy of course after thursday evening's team announcement. Hoggie was excellent. Clare don't have a number 4 (this is going to keep catching them) and Hoggie took advantage. Harnedy did well initially and in fairness he was everywhere but Ryan got on top eventually. But fair fucks to the 2 boys - they both delivered a performance.

So what went right and what went wrong?
The first 45 minutes were exactly what we wanted. We moved the ball quickly, we were looking for the right lads at the right time, we were accurate. Most importantly, we got bodies back to support the full back line and conceded frees when we needed.

Barrett was pulling Conlon all over the place (although he never did the damage that he should have done), Connolly had Cleary on a yellow, Darragh was finding space, Joyce and Rob Downey hurling well. We had the Clare defence in bother and probably should have another 2 goals (the Darragh chance and Barrett chance had to be converted). Work-rate was excellent. Only thing you could fault in the first two thirds of the game were the puc-outs, Collins was under-hitting too many and it kept Clare in the game in that period. Clare weren't playing poorly at all at this stage so I think it's important to note we are at the level required when we're on it.

What went wrong was all preventable in my opinion. We got a bit caught up in that early second half excitement and our half back line and midfield totally lost their shape and followed the Clare half forwards out the field like an u14 team really. It was incredibly difficult for our full back line to manage 1 on 1s in that amount of space. This was totally different to the first half. To compound that we made poor changes. The 2 Roches should have been on the bench and Brian should have replaced Twomey or Dalton, and Eoin (who did really well in Ennis in March) should have replaced SOD (or if you wanted to keep SOD on the pitch, get him out of that full back line and into the middle of the field). You can't go around after Shane O'Donnell and Rodgers on a yellow card.

Those giving out about the second yellow I'd say haven't played in many high intensity matches. It's a split second thing and I think if that's Clare v Limerick reffed by Keenan or KK v Galway reffed by Gordon its either play on or maybe a free, it's a harsh yellow. I've said for ages that SOD shouldn't be in the corner, and I didn't see anything yesterday to change my mind on that but I wouldn't be hard on him for the second yellow. He shouldn't have been on Shane O'Donnell at that stage and it was complete madness leaving him 1v1 on him on several occasions while on a yellow. Watch Limerick playing Shane O'Donnell - they never leave anyone 1v1 on him, they know you need a second defender in there immediately, probably the most dangerous forward in the country along with Gillane.

Other changes didn't work either. ROF is unfit and out of form. Coleman did ok.
There are small changes that are staring us in the face that can make that difference - others have mentioned it already but we need to pick a midfield that help us to concede less. When was the last time you saw a Cork number 8 or 9 getting in a hook to stop a goal, or just making a tackle in our 21?
Clare played some super hurling, and they're missing 2 top players so they are a serious side. We were better than them for a good chunk of it but ultimately we shot ourselves in the foot by not prioritising how we would stop them as the game played out.

Players and management got a lot right yesterday, the players gave absolutely everything, and it was fantastic to see great attacking hurling by Cork down the pairc in a game of the highest quality. Smarter defensive thinking about positioning and personnel would have got us over the line.
Wayyyyy too long. This isn't the Echo
 
Have had a flick through the last few pages and the negativity is way over the top.

We had a poor performance down in Walsh Park - 6 changes were made and a dramatically improved performance was needed, and that's what we got.

We were playing the 2nd best team in the country (they might prove to the be the best yet this year) and definitely the best attacking team in the country, and I think we were the better team on balance when it was 15v15. Kind of a pointless comment but I genuinely believe that we would have gone on and won it without the sending off.

Just to breakdown the changes first:
Eoin Downey, Niall O'Leary, Tim O'Mahony into the back line and I thought the 3 of them put in huge shifts. I've been critical of NOL but he put in a big performance. Same with ED - he did a great on Aidan MacCarthy overall, great paw and needs to stay in the team. Tim had a real tough one against Duggan, and there was an obvious switch to be made, but I thought he showed his value to the team, we have more fire and aggression as a team when he's on the field.

Ethan Twomey, Dalton, Hayes also did well. Hayes should have done more with a few balls in the first half, Adam Hogan was on top but Dalton was excellent (himself and TOM are our most aggressive players) - we lost something when he went off unfortunately. E Twomey will have got loads out of that - he got on plenty ball, he's a super athlete and he'll keep on getting better.

The pressure was on Hoggie and Harnedy of course after thursday evening's team announcement. Hoggie was excellent. Clare don't have a number 4 (this is going to keep catching them) and Hoggie took advantage. Harnedy did well initially and in fairness he was everywhere but Ryan got on top eventually. But fair fucks to the 2 boys - they both delivered a performance.

So what went right and what went wrong?
The first 45 minutes were exactly what we wanted. We moved the ball quickly, we were looking for the right lads at the right time, we were accurate. Most importantly, we got bodies back to support the full back line and conceded frees when we needed.

Barrett was pulling Conlon all over the place (although he never did the damage that he should have done), Connolly had Cleary on a yellow, Darragh was finding space, Joyce and Rob Downey hurling well. We had the Clare defence in bother and probably should have another 2 goals (the Darragh chance and Barrett chance had to be converted). Work-rate was excellent. Only thing you could fault in the first two thirds of the game were the puc-outs, Collins was under-hitting too many and it kept Clare in the game in that period. Clare weren't playing poorly at all at this stage so I think it's important to note we are at the level required when we're on it.

What went wrong was all preventable in my opinion. We got a bit caught up in that early second half excitement and our half back line and midfield totally lost their shape and followed the Clare half forwards out the field like an u14 team really. It was incredibly difficult for our full back line to manage 1 on 1s in that amount of space. This was totally different to the first half. To compound that we made poor changes. The 2 Roches should have been on the bench and Brian should have replaced Twomey or Dalton, and Eoin (who did really well in Ennis in March) should have replaced SOD (or if you wanted to keep SOD on the pitch, get him out of that full back line and into the middle of the field). You can't go around after Shane O'Donnell and Rodgers on a yellow card.

Those giving out about the second yellow I'd say haven't played in many high intensity matches. It's a split second thing and I think if that's Clare v Limerick reffed by Keenan or KK v Galway reffed by Gordon its either play on or maybe a free, it's a harsh yellow. I've said for ages that SOD shouldn't be in the corner, and I didn't see anything yesterday to change my mind on that but I wouldn't be hard on him for the second yellow. He shouldn't have been on Shane O'Donnell at that stage and it was complete madness leaving him 1v1 on him on several occasions while on a yellow. Watch Limerick playing Shane O'Donnell - they never leave anyone 1v1 on him, they know you need a second defender in there immediately, probably the most dangerous forward in the country along with Gillane.

Other changes didn't work either. ROF is unfit and out of form. Coleman did ok. Meade shouldn't be on the match day panel. There are small changes that are staring us in the face that can make that difference - others have mentioned it already but we need to pick a midfield that help us to concede less. When was the last time you saw a Cork number 8 or 9 getting in a hook to stop a goal, or just making a tackle in our 21?

Clare played some super hurling, and they're missing 2 top players so they are a serious side. We were better than them for a good chunk of it but ultimately we shot ourselves in the foot by not prioritising how we would stop them as the game played out.

Players and management got a lot right yesterday, the players gave absolutely everything, and it was fantastic to see great attacking hurling by Cork down the pairc in a game of the highest quality. Smarter defensive thinking about positioning and personnel would have got us over the line.
Great analysis.
 
An awful lots of guff between spouted on here, and while everyone is entitled to their opinion I often wonder what games people are watching.

My take (most likely guff also).
Collins, keep doing what you always do and you will keep getting the same results. Distribution is not good enough and he is anything but a calming influence in goals. Full back line did well, especially in the first half, all three were attacking the ball and putting on massive pressure. Struggled in the second half when Clare improved and the game opened up big time, lack of cover won't have helped them. I've yet to be convinced by SOD, he seems to be always over thinking things. The sending off was daft and probably cost us the game. I've no doubt he hit him instinctively and well you can't do it, no one will be more annoyed than himself. Downey did very well at full.
Half back line, Tim did well, or as well as could be expected on a very very difficult opponent, maybe someone cuter might have mixed things up a bit rather than a wild pull everytime, but considering how isolated he was on Duggan I think he did well. Joyce, again I've yet to be convinced, his man did massive damage which is seemingly ok as he was covering the full back line, wasn't much cover for any of the 3 Clare goals where we were wide open for 50/60 yards. He made some decent looking runs but was there an end product at the end of any of them ? Downey was only ok, IMO he's not inter county half back standard.
Fitz looked decent at times, but all the other times we were cleaned in midfield. Twomey will have better days, its a tough stage.
Dalton worked very hard and a few good scores, would he make the Clare, Limerick, Galway teams ? Barrett did well, was on an amount of ball especially in the first half, and kept Conlan out of the game, again though very little impact on the scoreboard. Harnedy, what a man he is. Worked tirelessly while he was on, some excellent score and always dangerous looking. I think him going off (he was out on his feet) affected us more than anything. We lost our shape completely, and looked totally out of anything regarding a plan for puck outs.
Inside, Hayes, he tired hard and looked dangerous at times, but the harsh reality of Inter County is that you need to be making your mark on the score board. Connolly he is game, he is up for it and always looks dangerous but again the score board is the place he will be judged. Hoggy, delighted for him, he played very well, linked up well and generally look like Hoggy. A roaming game might suit him ever more. How the three of the Clare full back line finished the game is a mystery only the referee can answer.
Subs, Robbie contributed nothing. Coleman did ok, was a tough game to come into at that time, likewise for Meade. Cahalane got quiet simpy the harshest yellow card in a long long time when one considers what was going on at the other end of the field.

Management, I believe they mostly got it right yesterday, with the changes they made to the team and the ones they made as the game went on. It's hard to blame them for players not performing or doing daft things on the day.

Overall a big improvement, sadly we are just not ruthless or clinical enough that is required for success at this level.
 
To be fair, whilst understanding the negativity, I do think we were doing quite well 15 against 15 but momentum was going against us at the point of the red card. Can’t say for sure we’d have won.

The red itself was so needless by SOD. He will be disappointed with himself. You can’t do things like that when on a yellow even if O’Donnell did his best to make sure he got the second yellow. You have to be more clever in that situation. As far as red cards go in hurling the two reds in the last two weeks were fairly tame overall.

But the continued issue is that we concede absolutely massive scores in every single game. It’s actually scary. We need to score approx 35(goal incl) points to even have a chance in a game. Sometimes that wouldn’t even be enough. Limerick kept Tipp under 20 points yesterday. When last did Cork do that against a good team? The defenders don’t work as collective enough, they aren’t clever enough with tackling and some of them are just nowhere near good enough.

And the worrying part is that the same guys are getting picked all of the time despite change of management.

It’s conceivable that we could get out of the group with one win though and I could see that happening.
 
And 2 games lost and gone

Could we not have done that in the first two games too or don’t they count?

I never said they were

It’s a very valid argument. This group of players absolutely dominated the minor 3 years ago playing a brand of hurling that other teams couldn’t match. Now we are looking a very different prospect, beatable, playing the running game.
Of course the first 2 games count and I'm well aware of the result, for God's sake.
But they're done, take the learnings, park them.

As for the U20s, there's a thread for it, though your comments suggest they're not good enough for you either though because they look "beatable"

I'd give my right arm for the senior team to be unbeaten after 3 but looking "beatable"
 
Look I’m only watching on an iPad in a pub in Limerick with some stupid kk Galway rubbish in the telly …… but I think it’s wrong to place so much blame on Sean o Donoghue. It’s not tiddlywinks. It’s senior inter county. It’s picky by the ref. And Shane o Donnell milks it as any good forward does but come on. the rot had clearly set in before the goal. What’s noticeable as a neutral is that cork defenders didn’t play on the edge after that. I think Limerick tipp kk and Clare all recognise at that point that the ref is incredibly unlikely to pull a second red and seriously put the cutting bar down. Colm lyons gave hegarty an incredibly soft red in Ennis two years ago with 25 mins left. Still did enough to get the result. It’s a massive factor if your only game plan is a free for all shootout. But if you’re going places a team react. Lack of protection of the midfield running channels and inability to pick enough ball winners is the issue. Still think there’s twists and turns in the championship.
 
I think the whole place can see that Pat and co are not a good fit , it’s just a case of will they walk or wait to he shoved out .
1 championship win lads
Speak for yourself.
Not the "whole place" because you have not got a scooby.
Talking about replacing the manager with 2 games left to play is your perogative, but it's s*** talk.
 
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