Big Fuck Off Estate to be built near Blarney

[Jukka]

Big mistake really. A big idea driven by small people in small office. Towns and communities grow from small places into big places by the people that grow them over time.

Making one big mistake like a massive housing estate which it will be leads to a hub of problems that will be unmanageable in the short to long term. Something which could be looked upon in the future as a massive mistake.

Small communities grow into big communities - if only it was as beautifully organic as you make it sound. In reality what happens is that small villages like Carrigaline and Douglas explode into congested and sprawled suburbs - with the same old village structure at the centre and all the problems that creates.

This is not a massive housing estate, it's a new town. It will have a town centre. It will have a properly engineered road network to cater for it's intended population. It will be located along the rail line so that people can use good quality public transport to get into the city centre.

Most traditional towns were planned from scratch.

 

[chiefwigwam]

all that talk is 10 years old... Same old shit different day.

20

 

[VirtualLab]

Small communities grow into big communities - if only it was as beautifully organic as you make it sound. In reality what happens is that small villages like Carrigaline and Douglas explode into congested and sprawled suburbs - with the same old village structure at the centre and all the problems that creates.

This is not a massive housing estate, it's a new town. It will have a town centre. It will have a properly engineered road network to cater for it's intended population. It will be located along the rail line so that people can use good quality public transport to get into the city centre.

Most traditional towns were planned from scratch.

I agree to a degree. If it is done well then it will work. If it is planned out well then it will work. It is dangerously idealistic though much like many mass produced ideas of late.

The EU is a good example of this. Made with the best of intentions, implemented with the best of ideas. Still didn't work out so well though.

I'm not knocking the idea overall but I think that it should be carefully planned out first with continuation plans also put in place as well. But I'm sure that the EU did that as well.

Utopian ideas never work, history has proven that. I suppose some research on previous attempts should be taken into account like Milton Keynes? Did that work or was it a desert of roundabouts and a place where everyone gets lost?

 

[poulgorm]

I would have have no confidence whatsoever that the Co. Council planners would get it right.

Mahon? Knocknaheeney? Inishmore? ballymun? All these places were totally controlled and planned by local authorities.

What makes anyone think they would get it right in Monard?

 

[VirtualLab]

I would have have no confidence whatsoever that the Co. Council planners would get it right.

Mahon? Knocknaheeney? Inishmore? ballymun? All these places were totally controlled and planned by local authorities.

What makes anyone think they would get it right in Monard?

Exactly my point but I was trying to be kind. The local authorities are not equipped to create this project in any way close to the design being proposed. The councils have lots of documentation for work they have done on estates. The results though have been left much undermanaged once the consultants have had their pay checks and their long term advice validated and ignored.

 

[Jukka]

I would have have no confidence whatsoever that the Co. Council planners would get it right.

Mahon? Knocknaheeney? Inishmore? ballymun? All these places were totally controlled and planned by local authorities.

What makes anyone think they would get it right in Monard?

Knocknaheeney, ballymun, tallaght, etc were years ago. And they were social housing projects, so a bit different. And they were designed by engineers, not planners.

Years of work has gone into the strategic planning of this new settlement. I've seen much of what's planned, and it certainly has been done properly. There is the threat of cowboy developers/councillors hijacking the thing in some manner, but it's seems fairly well ring fenced to me.

Are people really saying the solution is that we should just keep growing overloaded suburbs like Carrigaline, Glanmire, etc, which are not suitable for any mass transit systems and are poorly serviced?

 

[Jukka]

Utopian ideas never work, history has proven that. I suppose some research on previous attempts should be taken into account like Milton Keynes? Did that work or was it a desert of roundabouts and a place where everyone gets lost?

You can be sure plenty of research has been done.

Milton Keynes was a new city in post war Britian, built. You might as well sight Brazilia.

The 'ideas' guiding planning at the moment are actually far more in tune with the traditional town and town centre.It's about making places walkable, well connected, safe and well supervised. The type of concrete jungle tower block shit you saw in those type of developments we a architectural fad from the early to mid 1900's.

 

[samaron]

all that talk is 10 years old... same old shit different day.

Yeah but the single mums are breeding more and more and have to be accommodated. (That's including Polish).

 

[dsfella]

You can be sure plenty of research has been done.

Milton Keynes was a new city in post war Britian, built. You might as well sight Brazilia.

The 'ideas' guiding planning at the moment are actually far more in tune with the traditional town and town centre.It's about making places walkable, well connected, safe and well supervised. The type of concrete jungle tower block shit you saw in those type of developments we a architectural fad from the early to mid 1900's.

This will never happen.New town in Monard laughable.What planners need to do is make the city a viable option to Dublin to attract investment etc rather than a pie in the sky plan like this.

Extend the city boundary and grow the city.Investment will then come because as it is the population of the city continues to decline as people move to satelite towns

 

[Jukka]

This will never happen.New town in Monard laughable.What planners need to do is make the city a viable option to Dublin to attract investment etc rather than a pie in the sky plan like this.

Extend the city boundary and grow the city.Investment will then come because as it is the population of the city continues to decline as people move to satelite towns

How is this pie in the sky stuff? The docklands - something which is aiming to do what you are suggesting - is much more pie in the sky stuff. There is going to be natural population growth in the metro area - this will focus most of that on area, which can be designed properly and be serviced to proper transportation and other services.

And this effectively will be an extension of the city. Hopefully Phil Hogan will create a single Cork Authority, but until then we should be thankful that Cork County Council are doing a decent job of helping to create a strong metropolitan area. Take a look at Limerick to see what happens when things are done the other way.

I wouldn't be worried about the population within a boundary of a particular authority, and anyway the city council have done everything they can to make the docklands viable, it's up to the market and some government support to make it happen when an upturn comes. Nothing wrong with satellite towns either so long as they are well connected to the city itself - which this will be, far more so than most, and it will aid in developing a rail network with stations in Blackpool and perhaps Blarney too.

I wonder if 60/70 years or so ago people were standing at the top of the glasheen road looking westwards saying "a new town out there? That will never happen. Laughable". I also wonder what native Carrigaline or Ballincollig residents over 70 years of age make of what happened their villages in the last half century.