Woman murdered in Tullamore..

[Matlock]

They started kissing and then the accused sexually assaulted the victim. He later admitted to touching the victim’s genital area. He has not come to garda attention since the offence. Irish times

So he copped a feel.

Generally anytime you touch someone's genitals without their consent that is sexual assault.

It is the consent part that makes it copping a feel.

Just to cut off the inevitable response, if he thought she had consented then he wouldn't have confessed and pleaded guilty. He knew she didn't consent. He did it anyway. That's what makes it assault.

 

[sigourney's knickers]

It should be an easy question to answer.

The young man in this case says that he sexually assaulted his friend. That is a matter of fact. Given that, why are you insistent that he didn't?

He did. I said that!

That lad said he touched her genitals. It's in the fucking article!

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Clearly!

The fact is that no one apart from the guards and the judge and themselves know what he did as there wasn't a full trial. Obviously though, what he did was enough that once the guards called to him he knew that he was in the wrong and immediately admitted it.

If he had denied it, or denied the consent element of it it is highly unlikely that he would have gotten a conviction, so if he really didn't do anything wrong (or didn't feel he did anything wrong) I can see no reason why he would have confessed and pleaded.

He didn't just "drop the hand". He sexually assaulted someone.

According to the times, he dropped the hand.

 

[Matlock]

According to the times, he dropped the hand.

He did. I said that!

That lad said he touched her genitals. It's in the fucking article!

He touched her genitals without her consent. That is sexual assault.

He knew that he didn't have her consent and he did it anyway. I am assuming that when you guys talk about "dropping the hand" as young fellas ye weren't doing it in situations where you knew the other person didn't consent.

The argument you are making is akin to "he just had sex with her, it was just a ride". Except that without consent, that would be rape.

 

[sigourney's knickers]

He touched her genitals without her consent. That is sexual assault.

He knew that he didn't have her consent and he did it anyway. I am assuming that when you guys talk about "dropping the hand" as young fellas ye weren't doing it in situations where you knew the other person didn't consent.

The argument you are making is akin to "he just had sex with her, it was just a ride". Except that without consent, that would be rape.

No more. No more.

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

He touched her genitals without her consent. That is sexual assault.

He knew that he didn't have her consent and he did it anyway. I am assuming that when you guys talk about "dropping the hand" as young fellas ye weren't doing it in situations where you knew the other person didn't consent.

The argument you are making is akin to "he just had sex with her, it was just a ride". Except that without consent, that would be rape.

Ah here, did you ever have the hand dropped on you? Did you get asked for your consent in the heat of the moment, probably not. If you did not want it, you probably would pull the hand away after he/she touched you. As I said it is a different era now.

 

[Matlock]

Ah here, did you ever have the hand dropped on you? Did you get asked for your consent in the heat of the moment, probably not. If you did not want it, you probably would pull the hand away after he/she touched you. As I said it is a different era now.

You are assuming that the lack of consent here was passive. Why?

 

[Matlock]

Ok then, but let get this in proportion a stiff talking too would have sufficed, and the consequences of his action explained, come on he's a kid. No need to ruin his life.

What about her life being ruined? Does that not matter?

The notion of the possible consequences of these encounters would be covered in consent classes, but we all know how the men of the proc feel about those...

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

You are assuming that the lack of consent here was passive. Why?

I'm not. I gave you a scenario based on what I read that we can relate to from our youth. It was as per the definition of law most likely sexual assault then as well but the point is, we have probably all been in a similar situation and none of us (hopefully) ended up in court.

 

[Matlock]

I'm not. I gave you a scenario based on what I read that we can relate to from our youth. It was as per the definition of law most likely sexual assault then as well but the point is, we have probably all been in a similar situation and none of us (hopefully) ended up in court.

We've all been in a situation where someone did not consent to us touching their genitals but we did it anyway? I don't think so.

I think what you might be saying is that we have been in a situation where someone did not explicitly consent. That isn't the same thing though.