The Official Munster Rugby Thread™

[Handy Run]

You'd swear Munster were playing like Fiji when we were winning stuff.

It was 90% kick for the corners and up the jumper rugby.

I agree we can do better but this season has had its high notes too.

Oh I agree we won with 10 man rugby. Must've been gawk for the neutrals. But we won't win doing that any more.

 

[How bad boy]

You keep telling yourself that.

Farrell was brought in at centre too. We're not producing any. Goggin was embarrassing at the weekend.

Saying money isnt a huge factor is ridiculous.

I'm not saying it isn't a factor, it's just not clear to me that it's a primary differentiator.


If you look at where Leinster are successful, they're not really successful because they attract big foreign talent.
And if you look at where Munster have problems, attrition isn't one of them. I can't really name any first choice Munster players have been lost because Munster couldn't pay the salaries. On the other hand, Munster have been able to attract big foreign talent, signing Snyman and De Allende were massive coups at the time.

De Allende is off at the end of the season, but it's not clear that it's a money based decision.


To maybe state it another way, I don't think that if you doubled Munster's budget, they'd overhaul Leinster.

So I think the root of problem lies elsewhere, and yes, the production line is really where the time, effort and, if it's available, money, should go. That's where Leinster are amazing, and what Munster should be sensibly emulating. And it's not only Leinster that production line is helping, a significant percentage of the other province's squads are from the Leinster system,
Thinking about it now, it's where SA and NZ have always been strong too, if you think of the amount of talent they export and still remain dominant globally, it's astounding.
For contrast, England exports very, very little talent and have far more players + money. So clearly there's something in the structures in NZ and SA which more than compensate for the lack of money, so more money isn't necessarily the right solution.


Do Leinster spend a significant proportion of their budget on it? I wouldn't have thought so but I don't know for certain.

We have an embarrassment of resources compared to Connaught yet they play much better rugby than us. I'm not saying we have to spread the ball every time as sometimes Connaught can be a bit naive but we have gone in the opposite direction. So we can't blame the lack of resources for our shite saffer style rugby.

They play prettier rugby than Munster, Munster are still a significantly better team. Worth keeping that in mind.

 

[Lee Bushwacker]

Oh I agree we won with 10 man rugby. Must've been gawk for the neutrals. But we won't win doing that any more.

Fcuk the neutrals. Munster were European champions twice in three years. This was before Leinster won their first.
Sadly it's gone downhill!

 

[nelly sham]

Munster just haven’t adapted, Joe-ball died off with the World Cup, Farrell persisted for a season and relented to a style that suits the skills of the players.
JVG persisted with it even though the players at his disposal were becoming less and less suited.

You’d expect an uptick in results alone from actually playing heads up rugby with a scrum half not allowing defenses to set and 10 that can move the backline. Prendergast will achieve that from pure basics alone. The forwards need a bit of dog though in the front and back row. Kleyn is crucial in what he does but needs help.

 

[Handy Run]

Fcuk the neutrals. Munster were European champions twice in three years. This was before Leinster won their first.
Sadly it's gone downhill!

First of 4, possibly 5. With plenty of more to come.

Our results back then were unsustainable in the long run as they were the result of a once in a generation group of players as opposed to an infrastructure consistently producing talent.

You couldn't have missed my point any more if you tried.

 

[Jukka]

On the schools - we need a totally different approach here. Students in Munster are less likely to have access to private rugby playing schools than in Leinster, and those schools don't have the same level of cash, so while they probably need to up their standards that won't solve much.

The big regional county towns are where Munster need to start hammering and where we'll really grow the potential player pool. To be fair you're seeing it a bit already, with Waterford starting to produce more, obviously West Cork helped by Bandon grammer, and club system players were important in the Wasps win. But the scope to do better is massive, especially for those positions you need physically unique specimens like lock and prop. For all Leinster's reliance on the schools, their X factor physical player (Furlong) came through the club game, as did their previous one (O'Brien).

The elephant in the room is the total collapse of Limerick rugby. If it wasn't for Munster forcing all academy and squad players to be with Limerick clubs they'd be after withering at senior level. It's the supposed home of Irish rugby yet the Skibereen electoral area, Waterford and Tipp are each making more of a contribution in recent years. There should be panic stations about that, especially if they want to justify turning their back on the Cork for the place. If Limerick could produce just two or three strong forwards on top what's coming it would make a massive difference.

 

[junior footballer]

Leinster have a huge advantage with the fact at least 8 of their schools are producing panels of semi professional players at 17-19 years of age who are well coached and physically conditioned, most of the schools up there have professional coaches and heads of rugby, in contrast munster have PBC, CBC, Crescent, munchins as a solid consistent 4 with occasional good teams from glenstal or Rockwell or even Brandon grammar……so from a start their academy has a far wider pool of better players to select.
Add to this they have harnessed huge monies from being in the capital and sound investment, renting the RDS for example instead of purchasing their own stadium.
They have also clearly got better coaches in particular the likes of Lancaster, mc ride and contepomi at the minute……
Munster only moved full time to limerick in 2018? And I would think they are the only franchise in sport to situate themselves in a smaller city to what was available, notwithstanding the romantic lure of Thomond etc
The days of Munster competing with Leinster as equals are OVER, it won’t happen again imo unless a rich oligarch came in and started writing cheques.
Despite this we should be better then what we have been, our attack play has been and remains abysmal, our depth is really weak, we have recruited averagely and what’s coming through the academy is ok but way off compared to Leinster

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I'm not saying it isn't a factor, it's just not clear to me that it's a primary differentiator.


If you look at where Leinster are successful, they're not really successful because they attract big foreign talent.
And if you look at where Munster have problems, attrition isn't one of them. I can't really name any first choice Munster players have been lost because Munster couldn't pay the salaries. On the other hand, Munster have been able to attract big foreign talent, signing Snyman and De Allende were massive coups at the time.

De Allende is off at the end of the season, but it's not clear that it's a money based decision.


To maybe state it another way, I don't think that if you doubled Munster's budget, they'd overhaul Leinster.

So I think the root of problem lies elsewhere, and yes, the production line is really where the time, effort and, if it's available, money, should go. That's where Leinster are amazing, and what Munster should be sensibly emulating. And it's not only Leinster that production line is helping, a significant percentage of the other province's squads are from the Leinster system,
Thinking about it now, it's where SA and NZ have always been strong too, if you think of the amount of talent they export and still remain dominant globally, it's astounding.
For contrast, England exports very, very little talent and have far more players + money. So clearly there's something in the structures in NZ and SA which more than compensate for the lack of money, so more money isn't necessarily the right solution.


Do Leinster spend a significant proportion of their budget on it? I wouldn't have thought so but I don't know for certain.

They play prettier rugby than Munster, Munster are still a significantly better team. Worth keeping that in mind.

You're just repeating yourself.


Munster couldn't afford De Allende and Snyman as their budget allow it. They were privately funded.

To say money isnt a major issue for Munster is just wrong.

 

[nelly sham]

I’d also love to know what happened behind the scenes to throwaway Larkham’s play book that worked well early on in both of his first two seasons.

 

[nelly sham]

You're just repeating yourself.


Munster couldn't afford De Allende and Snyman as their budget allow it. They were privately funded.

To say money isnt a major issue for Munster is just wrong.

They’d want to look at themselves there somewhat too, how many lads are living and have lived off contracts, local lads too, that they wouldn’t get elsewhere. They need to recognise the deadwood and act accordingly a lot more than they have been doing.