Referendum on Family & Care

[Crusty Ring]

Yes they did publicly declare their support for a Yes Yes. That’s easy to do. What I’m saying is what did they actually do on the ground to get the yes vote out? Feck all in my opinion.

Did they really push hard though? FF, FG and SF ran a mile from it.

They knew weeks ago this would be defeated.

So they publicly declared support for it and ran a mile from it?

Ok

 

[Crusty Ring]

Never liked MacDowell. But he's done his country some service on this.

He did convince me, and I suspect others. I wouldn't have bothered reading the amendments and assumed that they were just an update of some archaic language. I would have voted Yes, or not at all. Seemed bog standard simple stuff to me, until I heard him outline his concerns about a 'durable relationship.' Then I realised that the government were essentially forcing marriage on all people who co-habit, and the legal nightmare that that would become for all sorts of reasons. I saw the light ... thanks to that wanker. Fair play to him, he needn't have bothered.

Absolutely nailed it.

 

[Corkiness]

What way did Cork vote?

 

[CharlieManson]

Why do keep bringing the ‘far right’ into this debate? It has absolutely nothing to with them and they had zero impact on the outcome.

McDowell could see this was flawed from day one and took a strong position against it based on his experience as minister for justice plus decades in Irish politics. All he done was present facts in a coherent manner.

He was right which has been backed up by roughly 70% of the vote.

The man has done a great service for his country and he’s gone up in my estimation

Very well said.

McDowell is one of the keenest legal minds in the country.

He identified the problems with these amendments from the get go in The Seanad. He wrote to O'Gorman back in November seeking clarity on what constituted a durable relationship and got the brush off.

He sent a FOI request to get information on Integration, Finance and Justice' meeting on this referendum.
The department of Integration refused to hand over the minutes and notes.

McDowell set out the potential problems with both ammendments in a cool factual manner and didn't resort to the idiotic hallmark style emotive nonsense of the government parties and opposition. He deserves enormous credit for treating people with respect and not dumbing down the argument.

The parties of government and the opposition all went along with this rubbish and the electorate has given them a bloody nose. Only Aontu showed any kind of understanding what people actually thought of this.


Banging on about the fAr RiGht is neither here nor there. Had the government been looking for a no vote, Blighe and co. would have been looking for a yes vote. People understood these shoddy amendments and rejected them in record numbers.

 

[CharlieManson]

What way did Cork vote?

About 73% against.

True, but if the coalition did a half decent job of getting it across to the electorate, it would’ve passed I believe.

They ran a concerted campaign on Television, Radio and social media.


You'd want to have been living under a rock not to have gotten both sides on this.
People heard their message and overwhelmingly rejected it.

Saying they didnt get the message out or people didn't understand it is untrue.

 

[SoundMan]

The referendum figures are something else.

It was a complete humiliation for the government and the Shinners.

The results for the Family Referendum (39th amendment vote). 67.28% NO and every constituency m - except Dun Laoghaire.

Again Dan Shill wants to lump Sinn Fein in with the govt on this referendum humiliation. SF were involved to the same degree as Labour Party, Social Democrats, and People Before Profit trying to make what they saw as the best of a bad lot on the Govt’s forced through wording.

Yes all the opposition parties (Renua aside) messed up, but nothing on the scale
Of culpability of the Goverment parties who came up with their own wording; guilotined it through the Dáil preventing opposition debate; and lied to the opposition about the AG’s advice.

And now members of this GFFG Govt want to prioritise finding who leaked the AG’s opinion.

Still, at least Dan has moved on a bit from where he wanted to absolve his hero Micheál Martin completely of any culpability when he went so far as to name a list including the likes of Pantybliss as being responsible - but not MM

 

[SoundMan]

Citizens Assembly recommended neutralising the language with the constitution..So in its simplest form replacing the word "mother" with "parent". The Dáil committee who took it on after the CA recommended something similar. and it could have easily been done.

It was The dept of Equality (Rodders) that came up with the durable relationship stuff and the wording on care about striving to ensure.

And then the Govt parties used their majority to guillotine any debate on Rotten Rodders wording because “the government knows best” and it led to the absolute sh*tshow wording which got the reaction it deserved from the citizens

 

[CharlieManson]

Again Dan Shill wants to lump Sinn Fein in with the govt on this referendum humiliation. SF were involved to the same degree as Labour Party, Social Democrats, and People Before Profit trying to make what they saw as the best of a bad lot on the Govt’s forced through wording.

Yes all the opposition parties (Renua aside) messed up, but nothing on the scale
Of culpability of the Goverment parties who came up with their own wording; guilotined it through the Dáil preventing opposition debate; and lied to the opposition about the AG’s advice.

And now members of this GFFG Govt want to prioritise finding who leaked the AG’s opinion.

Still, at least Dan has moved on a bit from where he wanted to absolve his hero Micheál Martin completely of any culpability when he went so far as to name a list including the likes of Pantybliss as being responsible - but not MM

Renua dont exist, they changed their name to something else last year. Maybe youre thinking of Aontu?

As for calling me a shill. Ive been hugely critical of all government parties stance on this and I slated Micheal Martins performance on Primetime earlier on in the week.

I dont vote or form my opinions along party lines. You should try it some time. People might stop labelling you a cultist.

You cut a ridiculous figure trying to solely blame the government when the idiot Shinners (along with Soc/Dems and Labour) were pushing for a yes vote.


'Change' my arse. They've proven themselves just the same as the idiots who came up with these ridiculous amendments








Ffs that moron McDonald is on the record saying she would rerun the referendum the public just rejected in record numbers.
Just as out of touch as the government parties

 

[SoundMan]

So Leo the Taoiseach wasn’t outside a polling station yesterday pushing for a yes vote?

SF said if it doesn’t go through as a yes they will try run it again.

If you honestly think they’ve run a mile you haven’t been paying attention

SF (MLMD) said yesterday they would NOT run the same referendum again. No party in their right mind would!

 

[Crusty Ring]

Again Dan Shill wants to lump Sinn Fein in with the govt on this referendum humiliation. SF were involved to the same degree as Labour Party, Social Democrats, and People Before Profit trying to make what they saw as the best of a bad lot on the Govt’s forced through wording.

Yes all the opposition parties (Renua aside) messed up, but nothing on the scale
Of culpability of the Goverment parties who came up with their own wording; guilotined it through the Dáil preventing opposition debate; and lied to the opposition about the AG’s advice.

And now members of this GFFG Govt want to prioritise finding who leaked the AG’s opinion.

Still, at least Dan has moved on a bit from where he wanted to absolve his hero Micheál Martin completely of any culpability when he went so far as to name a list including the likes of Pantybliss as being responsible - but not MM

Soundy Sinn Fein were very vocal on endorsing the Yes vote and although I don’t think anyone should be sacked for it like I think O Gorman should, SF have made right fools of themselves coming out after saying the wording from the government was a joke.

Why didn’t they say it before it was emphatically shot down?

They’ve lost a lot of credibility recently imo.