Cork Hurlers - Part 2

Some great posts and some typically shite & pointless angry posts over the last few pages.

Love the few posts about the youngfellas a few pages back - a great reminder of the cruelty of sport but also a great bit of perspective, hurling is our life but it's an amateur sport and the reason that we all love it so much is the pure joy of playing it and watching it. On Sunday the sport was played to an exceptional level - exciting and incredibly high quality.

Firstly, Johnny Murphy. Stop wrecking your own heads lads - there was a thousand fine margin moments, Murphy got some of those moments wrong which on the balance went against us, but Cork players got loads of those moments wrong (and right!), and Cork mgmt also. We had the winning & the losing of it ourselves.

Murphy was actually having a great game until he got the clip on the head and the few poor calls I felt were mainly in extra time. Loads of subjective stuff (the black card, pen was dubious - would have been harsh to give imo)... the most glaring one was Conlon's lunge at Fitzgibbon - Conlon was actually happily conceding the free to stop Darragh, he was more surprised than anyone that there was no free.

However, the key point is that Murphy confirmed the new rules of the game early on - Clare adapted and we didn't. He wasn't going to give anyone the line no matter what they did. Aidan McCarthy didn't strike one free at goal in the entire second half which is a sure sign of Cork being too nice. Murphy gave gave both defences the offer of doing whatever was necessary to stop goal chances - Clare accepted that offer but Cork didn't. Also, we got the rub of the green at other times this season, particularly with the goings on in Walsh park for the Tipp Waterford game. Regarding the posts that say that Cork should exert more control or influence over officials decision making - there may be a small point in that (Clare used Cork's delayed pitch appearance for extra time very wisely - all players + lohan chatting to all 7 match officials for 3 minutes (coinciding with the only period of play where I thought we were hard done by on decisions)). However, the likes of Davy does more ref moaning than anyone and I don't see any evidence of it helping his teams get the rub of the green on tight calls.

But first focus is controlling what you can control. The harsh reality is that despite a fantastic opening quarter we were the second best team in the contest (on the day) for most of the rest of it. Clare won more 1 on 1 battles and had players playing to their very very best. We fought like dogs and showed massive resilience to take the game to the very death but we couldn't bring our A game in attack. Focusing on Cork (the stuff we can control), I thought there were 4 key aspects of the game that drove this dynamic:

1. Cork puc-out strategy lacking a plan B
Clare just simply said if you go long on Hayes with every ball we'll outnumber you on the break by at least 2. The plan B was not complicated but Cork did not want to run through any line in our own half at any stage so even the short puc-out was followed by the Hayes ball. The space was there but we lacked a bit of planning and a bit of balls to mix it up sufficiently.

2. Cork's nice guy defending
Referenced above but Murphy was letting it all go so we should have taken a few yellows and whatever about the Kelly goal (just magic) the other 2 should have lads stopped hard, particularly Rogers - that was never a goal-scoring chance, I was so disappointed with Coleman and SOD there. At the other end, McInerney had 2 yellows, Conlon probably 2 yellows and Hogan another 2 but it was clear no one was getting sent off on Sunday. Adapt and survive.

3. Cork's full forward line getting held
1-9 from the 3 boys from play v Limerick, was 4 or 5 points from the 3 of them on Sunday? We needed to win this line and we didn't. Hayes was really good to be fair but the other 2 never got going. I thought we should have moved them around to create something for Clare to think about - Hoggie out to 11, or Harnedy in at 14 - anything to make them uncomfortable when it was clear we weren't getting an end product. Leen was outstanding - a lesson again for Cork mgmt team. Rory Hayes was the man there over the last couple of seasons but Lohan trusted the young gun and he delivered. Eoin Roche and Conor O'Callaghan watching on probably thinking they could do what Leen does. Also proved you don't have to have a half back line that protects a full back line - it was straight up 3v3 with plenty quality ball in, and Hogan and Leen just really got on top.

4. Cork's bench
We've gone into this loads of times over the season but for one reason or another (injuries, form?) that us outside of the camp can't really see the approach to the forward from a bench perspective has been very odd. Kingston, ROF, JOC and Power are probably all seen to best effect in the full forward line. Kingston did well although Cian Galvin stopped him fairly quickly. Brian Roche, Ben Cunningham, Diarmuid Healy, Padraigh Power - there are 4 forwards that should feature next year that could have featured this year and made all the difference. I could see the angle with JOC - speed v tiring legs, good Clare performances in the past but there were plenty signs over the last 2 years that this was a big gamble and it didn't pay off. Before Robbie's shooting disappointments (in first 5 mins on the field) I noted to my brother beside me that he wasn't working hard enough - McInerney hoovered up 2 balls that he didn't bother running for. Just not the old lightning Robbie. His confidence, fitness and feel for the game wasn't there.

Overall, the players & management deserve massive credit for such a battling performance on Sunday. Mark Coleman's 4th quarter performance was just phenomenal - he stood up in the biggest moment. The Downey's, Joyce and Tim also superb. Hoggie has nailed his legendary status and rightly takes his place at the top of the all time scorers list. They gave us a great year and have filled up the hunger tank for the next couple of years. It will make the day they climb the steps all the sweeter. Looking forward to next season already.
Quality post
 
Some great posts and some typically shite & pointless angry posts over the last few pages.

Love the few posts about the youngfellas a few pages back - a great reminder of the cruelty of sport but also a great bit of perspective, hurling is our life but it's an amateur sport and the reason that we all love it so much is the pure joy of playing it and watching it. On Sunday the sport was played to an exceptional level - exciting and incredibly high quality.

Firstly, Johnny Murphy. Stop wrecking your own heads lads - there was a thousand fine margin moments, Murphy got some of those moments wrong which on the balance went against us, but Cork players got loads of those moments wrong (and right!), and Cork mgmt also. We had the winning & the losing of it ourselves.

Murphy was actually having a great game until he got the clip on the head and the few poor calls I felt were mainly in extra time. Loads of subjective stuff (the black card, pen was dubious - would have been harsh to give imo)... the most glaring one was Conlon's lunge at Fitzgibbon - Conlon was actually happily conceding the free to stop Darragh, he was more surprised than anyone that there was no free.

However, the key point is that Murphy confirmed the new rules of the game early on - Clare adapted and we didn't. He wasn't going to give anyone the line no matter what they did. Aidan McCarthy didn't strike one free at goal in the entire second half which is a sure sign of Cork being too nice. Murphy gave gave both defences the offer of doing whatever was necessary to stop goal chances - Clare accepted that offer but Cork didn't. Also, we got the rub of the green at other times this season, particularly with the goings on in Walsh park for the Tipp Waterford game. Regarding the posts that say that Cork should exert more control or influence over officials decision making - there may be a small point in that (Clare used Cork's delayed pitch appearance for extra time very wisely - all players + lohan chatting to all 7 match officials for 3 minutes (coinciding with the only period of play where I thought we were hard done by on decisions)). However, the likes of Davy does more ref moaning than anyone and I don't see any evidence of it helping his teams get the rub of the green on tight calls.

But first focus is controlling what you can control. The harsh reality is that despite a fantastic opening quarter we were the second best team in the contest (on the day) for most of the rest of it. Clare won more 1 on 1 battles and had players playing to their very very best. We fought like dogs and showed massive resilience to take the game to the very death but we couldn't bring our A game in attack. Focusing on Cork (the stuff we can control), I thought there were 4 key aspects of the game that drove this dynamic:

1. Cork puc-out strategy lacking a plan B
Clare just simply said if you go long on Hayes with every ball we'll outnumber you on the break by at least 2. The plan B was not complicated but Cork did not want to run through any line in our own half at any stage so even the short puc-out was followed by the Hayes ball. The space was there but we lacked a bit of planning and a bit of balls to mix it up sufficiently.

2. Cork's nice guy defending
Referenced above but Murphy was letting it all go so we should have taken a few yellows and whatever about the Kelly goal (just magic) the other 2 should have lads stopped hard, particularly Rogers - that was never a goal-scoring chance, I was so disappointed with Coleman and SOD there. At the other end, McInerney had 2 yellows, Conlon probably 2 yellows and Hogan another 2 but it was clear no one was getting sent off on Sunday. Adapt and survive.

3. Cork's full forward line getting held
1-9 from the 3 boys from play v Limerick, was 4 or 5 points from the 3 of them on Sunday? We needed to win this line and we didn't. Hayes was really good to be fair but the other 2 never got going. I thought we should have moved them around to create something for Clare to think about - Hoggie out to 11, or Harnedy in at 14 - anything to make them uncomfortable when it was clear we weren't getting an end product. Leen was outstanding - a lesson again for Cork mgmt team. Rory Hayes was the man there over the last couple of seasons but Lohan trusted the young gun and he delivered. Eoin Roche and Conor O'Callaghan watching on probably thinking they could do what Leen does. Also proved you don't have to have a half back line that protects a full back line - it was straight up 3v3 with plenty quality ball in, and Hogan and Leen just really got on top.

4. Cork's bench
We've gone into this loads of times over the season but for one reason or another (injuries, form?) that us outside of the camp can't really see the approach to the forward from a bench perspective has been very odd. Kingston, ROF, JOC and Power are probably all seen to best effect in the full forward line. Kingston did well although Cian Galvin stopped him fairly quickly. Brian Roche, Ben Cunningham, Diarmuid Healy, Padraigh Power - there are 4 forwards that should feature next year that could have featured this year and made all the difference. I could see the angle with JOC - speed v tiring legs, good Clare performances in the past but there were plenty signs over the last 2 years that this was a big gamble and it didn't pay off. Before Robbie's shooting disappointments (in first 5 mins on the field) I noted to my brother beside me that he wasn't working hard enough - McInerney hoovered up 2 balls that he didn't bother running for. Just not the old lightning Robbie. His confidence, fitness and feel for the game wasn't there.

Overall, the players & management deserve massive credit for such a battling performance on Sunday. Mark Coleman's 4th quarter performance was just phenomenal - he stood up in the biggest moment. The Downey's, Joyce and Tim also superb. Hoggie has nailed his legendary status and rightly takes his place at the top of the all time scorers list. They gave us a great year and have filled up the hunger tank for the next couple of years. It will make the day they climb the steps all the sweeter. Looking forward to next season already.
Please don't look at this game rationally and quit with the positivity and logic. Fellas here just want "Saucy Bastards" " The Rugby lad back" , "Thesis on Micko" and a "No Classic Strategy"
 
Murphy felt he was denied his day in the sun, for years, due to Limerick's success.

He was never going to give a red card after the Rory Jacob criticism. Never call a throw ball after Tyler Walsh was criticised.

He was always going to let the game flow because that's what avoids criticism.


Clare played on the edge and adapted to a poor and lenient ref. We didn't.


Management and younger players will have learned from the CP AI Experience.

We will be much cuter if we get back there soon.

We will vary puck outs more, have a plan B and cover opponents short puck outs better.

Clare handled the situation better due to more experience but we have more potential and if we continue to improve, then we've a decent chance of getting Liam Mac back soon.
My God but this fellow is some winger.
I doubt if we'd get anywhere by criticising Murphy.

However, we were eliminated from the U20 and Senior C/ship due to mistakes by match officials. One can argue that changes are required.

I'd like to see both linesman have the authority to call fouls by raising their flags as is the case in Association Football.

This effectively gives you 3 refs so most fouls will be picked up.

I'd like to see more involvement from umpires particularly when defenders engage in shirt pulling, blocking and Hurley holding. These offences should be automatic yellows. We need a good standard in umpires, not friends and/or relatives of the ref.
We should have a pool of trained umpires from club refs who aspire towards IC reffing.

Johnny Murphy is not a good IC ref. He probably did his best but it's very difficult for 1 man to see everything.

Some of our ex players should be floating these ideas and we should seek changes at Congress.

I think the GAA might be receptive to improvement as Murphy and his officials cost the Association up to e8M

Money talks
My God but this fellow is some Whinger!
Page after page about the ref - let it go.
Murphy gave us 10 frees to their 3 and still
wants to get ex players to seek a change in rules.. 😂😂
The same players who set Cork hurling back 2 decades with their strikes.
 
I have no idea where this narrative about Cork not being nasty or cynical enough comes from at this juncture. Maybe in the past but a team of wallflowers doesn’t beat limerick twice lads.

Whatever undid Cork last Sunday it was absolutely not a lack of toughness, physicality or what fellas describe as the dark arts. Our boys are no angels, nor should they be.
Hey Tony, the general point, for the Clare goals, in particular the first 2, Cork defenders left players go past them. Compare this to Clare defenders ( Conlon on Fitz, their wing back on ROF pulling him down, Leen on ROF at the death etc)
 
Hey Tony, the general point, for the Clare goals, in particular the first 2, Cork defenders left players go past them. Compare this to Clare defenders ( Conlon on Fitz, their wing back on ROF pulling him down, Leen on ROF at the death etc)
I take your point but we not have two fellas sent off and another black carded in the first two games of the championship? Dragging down those fellas with the new rules there is dicing with death. The referee on the day wasn’t exactly sympathetic to our cause to put it mildly. I suspect they’d have found themselves above in the stand looking at Tony Kelly burying the penalty fairly quickly.
 
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