Absolutely atrocious but still got the win and are a win away against a white flag waving Tipp team from making the Munster final.Clare were absolutely atrocious against Waterford.
They'll do nothing this year.
Bookmarked.
Absolutely atrocious but still got the win and are a win away against a white flag waving Tipp team from making the Munster final.Clare were absolutely atrocious against Waterford.
They'll do nothing this year.
And it could be the last championship game for about 7 of that Tipp panel, surely they won't go out without at least putting up a fight . No love also lost between Tipp and ClareThey were dreadful. Should never have been close.
How it hung on an umpires decision I will never know.
Tipp gave up in the second half against us. Youd imagine they cannot be as bad again.
Fair enough. I respect you very much as a poster so I appreciate your position. I think a lot of people are going to be proven wrong when Joyce goes back to 6 when fit. A lot of the same people had Coleman going to midfield.To be fair, I think most on here make fairly rational comments e.g. 'Fitzgibbon could do so much damage at half forward' and a tiny minority (often 1) make the extreme comment e.g. 'Fitz is not a midfielder and never was'.
One of the other posters picked up on it a few pages back, but if we're going to start looking beyond Sunday and start thinking of having a proper crack in 2024 there are areas to improve and Joyce plays a massive role when you look at those.
I'm still watching TOM even over the last 2 weeks and thinking he belongs in a different part of the pitch - he's a pure baller, he wants to be playing the harlem globetrotter stuff all the time. I can't find the clip from Sunday online but there's a passage of play where there's a ball delivered to Tim from the full back line and he immediately gives a wristy bullet of a pass to Downey who does the same down to the right hand corner to Hayes maybe. If it had ended in a score the clip would be everywhere, but TOM's hurling ability is phenomenal - he's so instinctive... and at times that can be a problem at 5. He got very lucky in the first half that the flicks that went wrong didn't cause more damage. He played with discipline in fairness against Limerick but couldn't cope with Duggan against Clare.
Ethan Twomey is having his breakthrough season in what is going to be a stellar Cork career I have no doubt but there are understandable signs of rawness in each game, where he looks a little lost and drives a ball to nobody or doesn't see a tackle coming. Twomey has great footwork in tight situations and he is getting through some amount of work in the last 2 weeks but if you're looking at 5 or 8 for Joyce, it's probably 8 for me. The 2 Downeys at 3 and 6 is definitely something to be left alone. Rob reminds me of Brian Hogan at 6 for KK, with more eye-catching players at either side of him. On the pace point - ironically, his lack of it means he's not darting everywhere, he's holding the centre and crucially Coleman and TOM have buckets of pace to cover across and clog up the centre, which Coleman did on numerous occasions on Sunday.
For all the talk of Connolly & Barrett and co, the player to have the greatest impact on the turnaround is Patrick Collins. The puc-outs stats on Sunday were outrageous - 27 out of 34 and plenty of those long. 79% which was even better than his Limerick stat of 74%. Tipps was 57%; Limericks 58%. Thomas Walsh played his part (as did Stack) in letting all the quick ones go - there were quite a few borderline before the second whistle (expect our next opponents, if we get some luck to get an opponent, to call that out pre-match). Anyway, I don't think Collins falls into the issue bracket anymore... and there's no viable alternative so not much of a debate to had.
There are 2 final issues however - SOD is consistently having 'moments' - no different to any other season in the last 4 or 5 years. He's a great leader and ferocious competitor but we have to remove him from receiving short ones at the very least. It was good to see Coleman in the left corner back position receiving a couple on Sunday so hopefully that's a conscious development from the coaches. Lastly, substitution strategy - Meade was outstanding on Sunday, fair play to him. Hopefully it was horses for courses as against Clare it wasn't the right call, and it wouldn't be against the likes of KK or Limerick either. Lehane struggled a bit. I'll link this to a positive team point: his game is about jinking into pockets of space (often sideways or backwards) & getting shots away... contrast to Connolly, Hayes and particularly Barrett - their focus is beating the man by heading aggressively goal-ward and creating 2v1s and giving the ball to the player in the most dangerous position. I thought there was a bit of a culture clash watching Lehane in that cameo on Sunday. In fairness to Canning, his comment was spot-on also - the biggest change in Cork's attack since Pat took over last year is the team-work... work the ball to the player in the best position and go for the goal when it's on.
TOM & Coleman have a bit of that previous system hangover at the back also when over-playing it at times (TOM v Tipp & Coleman v Limerick).
These are a few of things that can catch us but they're mostly addressable and the coaching team deserve huge credit for fixing things over the last few weeks and creating the foundations for the lads to cut lose in the style that they have done over the last couple of weeks. There's a real clarity to how we play now, which was something we were all struggling to see for a long time, everyone was so decisive on Sunday... Coleman summed this up with the speed he was playing at, no turning back, driving forward, moving the ball quickly & mixing it up between short and long.
Coleman did go to midfield vs waterford…Fair enough. I respect you very much as a poster so I appreciate your position. I think a lot of people are going to be proven wrong when Joyce goes back to 6 when fit. A lot of the same people had Coleman going to midfield.
Classic for some here. Guy isn’t perfect and he’s being replaced. You hit the nail on the head. Even when he doesn’t show up on the scoresheet he brings a massive presence. He will have a few big moments to come.He’s a ball winner, with a huge physical presence and work ethic, something we have in short supply. As long as he continues to kick lumps out of the opposition, he’ll do for me.
I disagree but this is a fair argument. You want Downey in the game and don’t like him on the wing. Fair enough. I disagree but I can appreciate the perspective. I think Joyce goes back to 6. If he doesn’t he 100% goes back in at wing. It will not be midfield under any circumstance.I have massive time for Dalton and he is the lad who puts it up to Limerick the most in the physical stakes, a bit anonymous last Sunday but not saying for a moment he didn't get through trojan work off the ball. I would always have him as a starter with the likes of Kingston coming on for him later in the match.
On Joyce I wouldn't put him in as 6, not because he can't do a good job but because it is Downey's best position, I always have the fear he is going to get turned too easily on the wing and he has really grown into the 6 role now. Being cut throat I would probably put Joyce in for TOM.
It’s not bad for team spirit for one of the best players on the team and clearly one of the leaders to lose his place due to injury? This place is bizarro world.No one moved Joyce, he was injured and the man who came in took his chance and made the position his own. I think Joyce may have to wait for his chance to get back in because it wouldn't be fair to drop any of the half backs or midfield either. I think it would actually be bad for team spirit.
BR I totally understand that it’s impossible to remember everything every poster said on here.Where were all these criticisms of Joyce prior to the last two games? He was roundly praised as the long lost answer at 6 by the vast majority of supporters.
One more thing. We had one good defensive performance. Limerick scored plenty. We act like we controlled Limerick defensively. We did no such thing.
You are another poster I respect your point of view but let me ask you this. How good has this defense been the last two games? It wasn’t exactly great vs Limerick. I’d say it was fairly poor in the second half actually. Then it was good against a very poor Tipp team. To your point I think we are seeing a bit of an overreaction to the success the last two games. Downey has done well but he’s not better than Joyce. It’s also entirely possible that Joyce roams because it’s part of the plan. With Downey it isn’t. If you told Joyce to anchor I think he could do a better job of it than Downey, who I actually really like as well.BR I totally understand that it’s impossible to remember everything every poster said on here.
There has been some commentary on here about Joyce before now and his tendency to go for a wander. No doubt he is a brilliant hurler but the question was raised does he leave the center exposed at times.
Everywhere there ups some herd mentality, we all as passionate supporters get a bit carried away with both good and bad performances with the truth somewhere in the middle.
The question has also been asked many times over the last decade if our full back problem is first and foremost a result of a half back line, midfield and half forward line problem.
Regardless, it’s fair to say that the brothers in the center of the defense have made us look solid there for the first time in over a decade. No one is criticizing Joyce but he might be unlucky in that the sum of the other parts works better without him. That happens at inter county. Personally I wouldn’t change a winning team like we have right now but I’d expect Joyce to break back into the team again over the next couple of games, at CB, on the wing or at midfield even.
Cork play an expansive fast open style.You are another poster I respect your point of view but let me ask you this. How good has this defense been the last two games? It wasn’t exactly great vs Limerick. I’d say it was fairly poor in the second half actually. Then it was good against a very poor Tipp team. To your point I think we are seeing a bit of an overreaction to the success the last two games. Downey has done well but he’s not better than Joyce. It’s also entirely possible that Joyce roams because it’s part of the plan. With Downey it isn’t. If you told Joyce to anchor I think he could do a better job of it than Downey, who I actually really like as well.