Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Corkfan82]

Was anything Cusack said wrong?

Probably not.

I can see both sides Cranky.

We know Cusack loves the sound of his own voice but what he said is very arguably factually correct. Its a significant reason why we concede very high scores and lose games. He could easily have shown the L Meade example which was more damning IMO but choose a team example.

He treats his analysis of Cork the same as other counties which is not common amongst hurling commentators.

Was the criticism personal. Yes. Was it said for the right reasons. More attention for Cusack or a hurling analyst doing his job, Only Cusack knows.

 

[red&blue]

I guess some cannot leave 'the strike' in the past.

You’re the only one who mentioned “the strike”

 

[Crankycorner]

Probably not.

I can see both sides Cranky.

We know Cusack loves the sound of his own voice but what he said is very arguably factually correct. Its a significant reason why we concede very high scores and lose games. He could easily have shown the L Meade example which was more damning IMO but choose a team example.

He treats his analysis of Cork the same as other counties which is not common amongst hurling commentators.

Was the criticism personal. Yes. Was it said for the right reasons. More attention for Cusack or a hurling analyst doing his job, Only Cusack knows.

Nailed it there.

I think we kid ourselves a bit in Cork as to how good some of these players are. I won’t name names but I’ve said it here before many times. We’ve a lot of players of similar ability but very few if any at the top level. 5 years without an All Star. Unless we see a miracle in the next few weeks and months we won’t get one this year either.

Understandably our U20 success over the past 4 years has made us impatient for these players to be brought into the senior team. U20 All Irelands are no guarantee of senior success. Far from it in fact.

 

[red&blue]

Nailed it there.

I think we kid ourselves a bit in Cork as to how good some of these players are. I won’t name names but I’ve said it here before many times. We’ve a lot of players of similar ability but very few if any at the top level. 5 years without an All Star. Unless we see a miracle in the next few weeks and months we won’t get one this year either.

I’m not so sure it’s a lack of ability more a lack of proper coaching as a team. We still look like 15 individuals on the pitch when compared to Clare lor Limerick. Where is the structured team movement in games, it’s non existent.

For example we are badly crying out for a holding midfielder in the Will O Donoghue mould who can batter players in the middle 8 and have the hurling smarts to drop back and protect the defence when necessary. We don’t even try and develop that never mind implement it

We are miles behind coaching wise

Understandably our U20 success over the past 4 years has made us impatient for these players to be brought into the senior team. U20 All Irelands are no guarantee of senior success. Far from it in fact.

The definition of insanity is trying the same things over and over again and failing over and over again. We are all ireland champions in that

 

[Crankycorner]

I’m not so sure it’s a lack of ability more a lack of proper coaching as a team. We still look like 15 individuals on the pitch when compared to Clare lor Limerick. Where is the structured team movement in games, it’s non existent.

For example we are badly crying out for a holding midfielder in the Will O Donoghue mould who can batter players in the middle 8 and have the hurling smarts to drop back and protect the defence when necessary. We don’t even try and develop that never mind implement it

We are miles behind coaching wise

The definition of insanity is trying the same things over and over again and failing over and over again. We are all ireland champions in that

Some really valid points there also.

The Will O’Donoghue type player is no doubt a problem but I think it is an upstream one. From what I can see we don’t develop those players at minor and U20 level. We then have no chance of getting a player like that up to senior inter county standard.

As regards trying the same things over and over again you’re right. We’re experts at it. I would point out however that we’ve tried about a dozen defenders in the last two years who have come nowhere near the Championship panel never mind the team. Now, is it that they just aren’t good enough or is PR that bad of a judge of a player? I don’t believe it’s the latter. He’s finding the same problem that Meyler and Kingston found. Lots of lovely hurlers of similar ability but very few putting their hands up and saying ‘move out of the way now I’m here.’ Joyce is the only one really.

 

[junior footballer]

Was anything Cusack said wrong?

Yes absolutely, you cannot look at that match or any cork match for the last few years and say the puck outs are only number 6 on the list of things to fix, ffs distribution has always been average at best and it turned disastrous in the last game which led to an avalanche of scores especially in the second half, lots of problems for cork but when you are giving free ball away so often from the keeper it’s
Very hard to win every game when distribution from essentially free plays are going haywire, yes his point in chasing back is correct, it
Wasn’t strong enough but and this is a big worry, if players are told track their men regardless of what’s happening in front of them…..

 

[Corkfan82]

Nailed it there.

I think we kid ourselves a bit in Cork as to how good some of these players are. I won’t name names but I’ve said it here before many times. We’ve a lot of players of similar ability but very few if any at the top level. 5 years without an All Star. Unless we see a miracle in the next few weeks and months we won’t get one this year either.

Understandably our U20 success over the past 4 years has made us impatient for these players to be brought into the senior team. U20 All Irelands are no guarantee of senior success. Far from it in fact.

I think thats fair Cranky.

The killer for me and feel free to disagree. I think we should be on 4 points now but for bad selection and subs chosen. I really do which is beyond disappointing.

I'm a P Ryan fan but these questions need to be asked. He made a call starting Lehane in the wford game which backfired. A 20% scoring rate, 1 point from 5 shots. This is not Ryan fault, Starting him and then leaving him on for 50 mins. That is his fault.

He moved players to accomodate Coleman at wing back. Bringing him on as sub vs Clare. Did not work is being generous.

The subs policy, bringing Meade on in both games did not work, again I'm being generous.

We are losing close games this year and the above selection decisions and others are killing us.

Dogs of war at midfield are needed. Our closest are BR, TOC and E Twomey in that order IMO and yet Coleman and Meade are ahead in the picking order. What nessage does this give the whole Cork panel abd players at all levels. Beautiful to watch, skillfull hurler in, dogs with workrate, out.

S Twomey, B Roche, TOC, OUT

I talked alot about Coleman & Meade, they have and deserve my respect and support in the Cork jersey which they have in spades.

 

[Crankycorner]

Yes absolutely, you cannot look at that match or any cork match for the last few years and say the puck outs are only number 6 on the list of things to fix, ffs distribution has always been average at best and it turned disastrous in the last game which led to an avalanche of scores especially in the second half, lots of problems for cork but when you are giving free ball away so often from the keeper it’s
Very hard to win every game when distribution from essentially free plays are going haywire, yes his point in chasing back is correct, it
Wasn’t strong enough but and this is a big worry, if players are told track their men regardless of what’s happening in front of them…..

I get where’s he’s coming from. Obviously he’s going to stick up for a goalkeeper but what I took from it is that if Cork players don’t work hard enough off the ball then our puckout options are limited anyway.

 

[The Dagda]

As per usual Donal Og has the Frank lads on here in a vice like grip.
It's Donal ogs fault we are seen as a soft touch.
It's Donal Og fault we didn't win an underage All Ireland until a few years ago.
It's Donald Ogs fault our club champions get destroyed in Munster.
It's Donald Ogs fault we were not ready for the most obvious ambush of all ambushs in Walsh park.

You're not allowed to criticise your own country now?
Keep quiet and tow the line and go with the flow because that attitude is in no way the root of the problem.
lol.
He's a fucking pundit on the TV yet Cork the absolute basket case of the GAA is off limits because we are Cork.

 

[red&blue]

Some really valid points there also.

The Will O’Donoghue type player is no doubt a problem but I think it is an upstream one. From what I can see we don’t develop those players at minor and U20 level. We then have no chance of getting a player like that up to senior inter county standard.

As regards trying the same things over and over again you’re right. We’re experts at it. I would point out however that we’ve tried about a dozen defenders in the last two years who have come nowhere near the Championship panel never mind the team. Now, is it that they just aren’t good enough or is PR that bad of a judge of a player? I don’t believe it’s the latter. He’s finding the same problem that Meyler and Kingston found. Lots of lovely hurlers of similar ability but very few putting their hands up and saying ‘move out of the way now I’m here.’ Joyce is the only one really.

Coaching and culture Cranky, until we get them right we will remain as the nearly men