the US police killings

[strict66]

Of course your points are worthy of discussion, as this is a very complex situation with various factors.

But in response to your first point regarding the Irish, Italian, Greeks. One obvious and fundamental difference that cannot be ignored. They were, for the most part, white.

In terms of getting a chance, a second generation Irishman had a much greater chance than a guy whose parents or grandparents, if we go back to the start of the 20th century, were slaves.
And this institutionalised discrimination lasted in every facet of American society for a long time. It even does to a certain extent today.

America has not fully reconciled over their past regarding slavery. And that couldn't be more evident than what we've been seeing lately.

What about Jews and Asians ?

Granted Jews in America are for the most part Ashkenazi but in all fairness historically they've had a pretty rough ride in any country the diaspora is found. In America they positively thrived , despite anti semitism being a feature of 'American Racism' too.

American Asians are a far more interesting point of reference though. The Chinese are a massive yet almost anonymous part of American history . Again they endured appalling racism and discrimination . Didn't seem to hold them back though.

But you are correct though about slavery and I mentioned earlier that is not a footnote or something that can brushed off as something that happened years ago. There was a book called 'Slavery by another name' by (ironically) a lad called Douglas Blackmon and there in he describes how although slavery was abolished in the 19th century is endured by other means for quiet some time afterwards right into the 20th century. It cannot be argued it has left a serious scar on generation after generation of African Americans.

 

[CORKBHOY]

What about Jews and Asians ?

Granted Jews in America are for the most part Ashkenazi but in all fairness historically they've had a pretty rough ride in any country the diaspora is found. In America they positively thrived , despite anti semitism being a feature of 'American Racism' too.

American Asians are a far more interesting point of reference though. The Chinese are a massive yet almost anonymous part of American history . Again they endured appalling racism and discrimination . Didn't seem to hold them back though.

But you are correct though about slavery and I mentioned earlier that is not a footnote or something that can brushed off as something that happened years ago. There was a book called 'Slavery by another name' by (ironically) a lad called Douglas Blackmon and there in he describes how although slavery was abolished in the 19th century is endured by other means for quiet some time afterwards right into the 20th century. It cannot be argued it has left a serious scar on generation after generation of African Americans.

Like you, I don't have all the answers.

But to answer the question regarding Jews and Asians, quite simply they didn't have it as hard as the black population for the simple reason that they weren't existent in America due to their forefathers being institutionally slaved there.

A couple of generations after the abolishment of slavery resulted in dense populated areas of uneducated black people. It was extremely difficult to break from that. A lot did, against all the odds, but it wasn't a level playing field.

A lot of Asians and Jews also climbed the ladder against the odds but they weren't subjected to the same systematic discrimination as black people in the sense that their forefathers weren't brought there as slaves like the Africans.

A simple example I would give is, several decades ago an Asian immigrant would probably have gotten a menial job ahead of a native African American in certain sections of society.

 

[strict66]

Like you, I don't have all the answers.

But to answer the question regarding Jews and Asians, quite simply they didn't have it as hard as the black population for the simple reason that they weren't existent in America due to their forefathers being institutionally slaved there.
.

In the case of Asians , or more specifically Chinese that isn't entirely true. You had the Pacific slave trade which essentially saw thousands (if not millions) of Chinese essentially kidnapped or tricked into servitude in the 'New World' , mainly Latin America. Like I said earlier the role the Chinese played in making the new world is massive albeit almost anonymous.

 

[Hang_Sandwich]

Like you, I don't have all the answers.

But to answer the question regarding Jews and Asians, quite simply they didn't have it as hard as the black population for the simple reason that they weren't existent in America due to their forefathers being institutionally slaved there.

A couple of generations after the abolishment of slavery resulted in dense populated areas of uneducated black people. It was extremely difficult to break from that. A lot did, against all the odds, but it wasn't a level playing field.

A lot of Asians and Jews also climbed the ladder against the odds but they weren't subjected to the same systematic discrimination as black people in the sense that their forefathers weren't brought there as slaves like the Africans.

A simple example I would give is, several decades ago an Asian immigrant would probably have gotten a menial job ahead of a native African American in certain sections of society.

We're the Chinese labourers on the railroads not slaves?

 

[Dandy Lyons]

Black slaves were largely owned by Jewish people, the white Christians didn't really want slavery because it was too costly.
Slavery's been around for thousands and thousands of years, it's a global tragedy.

The Irish slaves that were sent to America were treated even worse than the black slaves were because they weren't as valuable due to physicality and that.

Also the black slaves that were sold to America were captured by black people, the first man to own a black African slave in America was black.

I bet that hardly any black Americans realise that there was also thousands of Irish slaves..

 

[Hang_Sandwich]

Black slaves were largely owned by Jewish people, the white Christians didn't really want slavery because it was too costly.
Slavery's been around for thousands and thousands of years, it's a global tragedy.

The Irish slaves that were sent to America were treated even worse than the black slaves were because they weren't as valuable due to physicality and that.

Also the black slaves that were sold to America were captured by black people, the first man to own a black African slave in America was black.

I bet that hardly any black Americans realise that there was also thousands of Irish slaves..

Irish slaves were in the Caribbean

 

[KD Langer]

Decent thread.

BUT that video of the black guy being choked to death is pretty damning.

Does anyone think

A) it would have happened to a white guy?


B) if it had there would have been no charges brought?

 

[cletusclark]

Decent thread.

BUT that video of the black guy being choked to death is pretty damning.

Does anyone think

A) it would have happened to a white guy?


B) if it had there would have been no charges brought?

C) Would it have made international headlines?

I find it hard to believe that a Caucasian person has never been killed in an altercation with police somewhere in the US at some point in their recent history. Surely we can make an actual comparison here rather than a hypothetical one?

 

[The Curious Lozenge]

Decent thread.

BUT that video of the black guy being choked to death is pretty damning.

Does anyone think

A) it would have happened to a white guy?


B) if it had there would have been no charges brought?

A) of course it would. it just wouldn't get as many headlines and/or cause riots.

B) again, yes. the cops look after themselves. the victims race has nothing to do with it.

 

[Eleven]

Decent thread.

BUT that video of the black guy being choked to death is pretty damning.

Does anyone think

A) it would have happened to a white guy?


B) if it had there would have been no charges brought?

Call it like it is, police using too much force. That isn't a race issue, more being trained properly or not following proceedure. If they are being unduly harsh on a particular group, that's down to bad management. If police men or women are being racist, it is up to colleagues to report it or the public.