The Official Irish Rugby Thread

I wonder if a potential extra £500k - £1m for Italy makes a big difference for them? That and good ticket sales at home this year.

Hope they smash the sheep shaggers Saturday
I would have thought it'd make a difference alright.


There was a good article a few weeks ago in the Telegraph on the state of Italian rugby:

What’s behind the Italian club picking off Premiership talent​

Bigger attendances, higher wages and revenues are turning Italy into an attractive destination for players

Charles Richardson, Rugby Reporter 25 February 2024 • 3:39pm

There was a time in the not too distant past where the two Italian franchises, Benetton and Zebre, were considered the whipping boys of what is now known as the United Rugby Championship. Since 2010, excluding the Covid-enforced Rainbow Cup, the former have only qualified for a play-off match once. The latter cannot even boast of that. The pressure was piling onto the national side for their inability to win a solitary Six Nations match, and la dolce vita suddenly did not look so sweet for Italian rugby. Faith and belief in their project was wavering. It looked a little bleak.

Victory in the 2021 Pro14 Rainbow Cup final against the Bulls, at the dawn of the URC, raised hopes of a revival which was boosted by some enthralling displays by the national team in both the 2022 and 2023 Six Nations. But a catastrophic World Cup and persistent URC mediocrity kept the prosecco on ice, with the days of a full-scale Italian rugby explosion still nothing more than a pipedream.

Now, however, the tide could be turning. Zebre might continue to flounder and Italy might be winless in their opening two Six Nations matches, with a daunting journey to Lille on Sunday to face the pre-tournament favourite of many in France, but, elsewhere, there are reasons for optimism within Italian rugby. The country’s under-20s travel to France on the back of a one-point loss in Cork in round two of their own Six Nations – in a match they should have won – while Benetton have lost the joint-fewest matches of any side in this year’s URC (two, tied with Leinster). Until defeat to the Irish province last Saturday, the Italian franchise occupied second place in the league table. And then there is recruitment.

Benetton’s squad is enormous – but it has to be. For last weekend’s loss to Leinster, the province were missing over 20 players owing to international commitments. Marco Bortolami, the former Gloucester and Italy captain who is head coach of Benetton, tells Telegraph Sport that the franchise have 65 players on their books – 10 of whom are academy players. That is 55 senior players. Where once the bulk of those might have been journeymen or players who were not offered contracts in the more lucrative Premiership or Top 14, Benetton Rugby are beginning to attract star talent and, with the backing of the global clothing group of the same name, they can afford to.

Thomas Gallo, the Argentina loosehead, and Malakai Fekitoa, the Tonga centre who was once an All Black, both call north-east Italy home, but there is also a litany of ex-Premiership talent alongside Fekitoa. Paolo Odogwu, Marcus Watson, Jacob Umaga and Andy Uren are now honorary Venetians. The former has been capped by Italy while Harlequins’ Louis Lynagh and Bath’s Matt Gallagher will join them next season. The fact the incoming duo also qualify for Italy is no coincidence, either.

“It’s part of the mission of Benetton and the Italian Federation,” Bortolami tells Telegraph Sport. “We have a gentlemen’s agreement which limits the amount of foreign players that we can have in our matchday squad every week – because we need to develop Italian players. It’s not a rule, just a gentlemen’s agreement, but we understand its importance; we’re all on the same page.

“At the start, we had to recruit as many players as possible but our objective for the past two years has been to improve the quality of our players little by little. Having foreign players who can fill the gap when the Italy internationals are away is critical. What has changed is that our performances have improved and we’re able to attract better players. Obviously, the Premiership struggled a bit financially and we were able to attract players like Jacob and Paolo.

“We are an Italian team; we need to keep building our identity. So, having those Italian-qualified players can help a lot in terms of the bigger picture. Not only for Benetton, but for the Italian team, too. We want to be successful but the Italian team has to be successful, too.

“We have complete freedom to recruit who we like, whether they’re foreign or Italian, although we have to keep our role in the bigger system in mind. Having quality foreign players is very important as you need the highest standards. That’s our aim. What makes Benetton successful will make the Italian team successful down the line.”

But why now? According to Antonio Pavanello, the director of rugby who also heads up recruitment – and a former lock partner of Bortolami with Italy – it is hard work behind the scenes which has led to increased revenues, with the club expecting one of their best average attendances of the professional era this season.

“Our income is increasing season on season: ticketing, sponsors, food and beverage, merchandising,” says Pavanello. “It’s a long project and every season we’re trying to increase our income. That is all increasing our player budget. Where once we could not sign a player like Fekitoa, now we can.

“We have only had one match this season where we have not sold out. Glasgow next week looks like another sell-out, too. We’re working really hard to get people into the stadium. We have never had this number. In 2010, the first season in the Magners League – as it was then – we never had these numbers. We had a sell-out, yes, but we had some matches with low numbers.

“People think it’s only because we’ve been winning. Not true. Of course it helps but there has been a lot of work done by people at the club. Creating events in the community, improving the fan experience at the stadium; the atmosphere is better. For many years, clubs came to do business in Italy; but with this added revenue it’s time for us to do some abroad. Not just the Premiership clubs, but there are good players in other leagues who we want to recruit, too.”

Where Benetton are concerned, watch this space; it seems there is more to come.
 
Many people are hesitant to discuss the elephant in the room in the Twickers game.

The huge impact of the gross incompetence of the TMO

England knew that to beat Ireland they needed to excell in every aspect. - they almost succeeded but failed in one critical area - the need for 100% discipline in head contact

They had reds in the last 2 games against us. They were jumping off the walls so management would have stressed the absolute need for discipline.

Ireland knew a red was one of the biggest threats to the slam and would have stressed this.

Ellis Genge committed a brain dead red offence. Given how obvious the offence was, Whitehouse had to see it. The fact that he didn't refer it to the ref is very sinister IMO

Whitehouse must explain himself. He didn't see it or he saw it and decided it wasn't serious.

Either explanation raises very serious questions.

People spoke about Murray, Earl, Cheesum as having the biggest impact on the result. But it was Ben Whitehouse

Nothing is certain but England were likely to lose if reduced to 14 early on


It's clear That Irl are livid because of this but cannot allow themselves be accused of sour grapes.

Lenihan's comment was diplomatic but clever. He stated twice that he was very surprised that the TMO didn't refer the clear out to the ref.

This speaks for itself
 
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Many people are hesitant to discuss the elephant in the room in the Twickers game.

The huge impact of the gross incompetence of the TMO

England knew that to beat Ireland they needed to excell in every aspect. - they almost succeeded but failed in one critical area - the need for 100% discipline in head contact

They had reds in the last 2 games against us. They were jumping off the walls so management would have stressed the absolute need for discipline.

Ireland knew a red was one of the biggest threats to the slam and would have stressed this.

Ellis Genge committed a brain dead red offence. Given how obvious the offence was, Whitehouse had to see it. The fact that he didn't refer it to the ref is very sinister IMO

Whitehouse must explain himself. He didn't see it or he saw it and decided it wasn't serious.

Either explanation raises very serious questions.

People spoke about Murray, Earl, Cheesum as having the biggest impact on the result. But it was Ben Whitehouse

Nothing is certain but England were likely to lose if reduced to 14 early on
That Genge oversight was awful as was Piardi running the line and missing two feet in touch. But it is what it is and Ireland were quite poor anyway so you wouldn't bet against them getting in their own way against 14
 
Many people are hesitant to discuss the elephant in the room in the Twickers game.

The huge impact of the gross incompetence of the TMO

England knew that to beat Ireland they needed to excell in every aspect. - they almost succeeded but failed in one critical area - the need for 100% discipline in head contact

They had reds in the last 2 games against us. They were jumping off the walls so management would have stressed the absolute need for discipline.

Ireland knew a red was one of the biggest threats to the slam and would have stressed this.

Ellis Genge committed a brain dead red offence. Given how obvious the offence was, Whitehouse had to see it. The fact that he didn't refer it to the ref is very sinister IMO

Whitehouse must explain himself. He didn't see it or he saw it and decided it wasn't serious.

Either explanation raises very serious questions.

People spoke about Murray, Earl, Cheesum as having the biggest impact on the result. But it was Ben Whitehouse

Nothing is certain but England were likely to lose if reduced to 14 early on


It's clear That Irl are livid because of this but cannot allow themselves be accused of sour grapes.

Lenihan's comment was diplomatic but clever. He stated twice that he was very surprised that the TMO didn't refer the clear out to the ref.

This speaks for itself
I agree it was at least a yellow.

That said, I really don't like the argument when people say that another team not having a player sent off cost them the match.

Sure, Ireland probably would have won in that scenario but at the end of the day, couldn't beat a 15 man England.
 
I agree it was at least a yellow.

That said, I really don't like the argument when people say that another team not having a player sent off cost them the match.

Sure, Ireland probably would have won in that scenario but at the end of the day, couldn't beat a 15 man England.
Yes, I do like the attitude in rugby union where teams accept that officials will make mistakes and so these things are not major points of discussion. I definitely dislike how Erasmus/SA act in regard to match officials.

However, there are 3 teams in a match - including the team of match officials. I accept that some mistakes will be made such as forward passes and failure to see offsides.

However, illegal head contact is now a huge issue and in the Genge case it was so apparent that the TMO simply couldn't have missed it.

I think our players and management were correct in not highlighting this as it would have come across as sour grapes and we know that we did not perform on the day.

England could only win if they brought a ferocious level of aggression but they knew it was vital to have controlled aggression particularly in tackling and clear outs. They got it wrong and should have paid the price. The same way as we took the risk on 6:2 split and paid the price.

I haven't heard that Genge has even been cited - there should be a mechanism to highlight this, otherwise officiating standards will not improve.

I think that there should be an admission of a mistake by the TMO and an official apology to Ireland.

With our lethargic display, there is no guarantee that we would have beaten 14 men but as it was a 1 pt game, it's a distinct possibility
 
I'd be interested to see someone comment on how the new gumshield with the accelerometer worked for this one

i don't know the rules but i presume it's an independent Dr gets the information when an acceleration event occurs who then informs the TMO.

Was the threshold of 70g's or whatever it is not exceeded?

Do we have a situation where a human ref ignored what he saw and defered to the TMO because he anticipated a call which never came?
 
There are folks saying that it was more Furlong making a meal of it.
I think the clip in the coverage isn't good enough to give a clear view, this is from the RTE analysis when they zoomed in, and even then, maybe he hit him on the head, hard to be certain. It's definitely marginal from this angle. Maybe he made no attempt to bind, you can only tell from the opposite angle (can't see his left arm at all here). With Mitchell and Itoje blocking before and afterwards, it might be that the TMO thought there isn't enough there to be sure.
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The fact that Furlong reacts like he's been shot in the face, then immediately gets on with it probably doesn't help.

Because Genge's head is clearly outside Furlong's right shoulder, I'd say it's a glancing blow to the head at most. Still at least a penalty, possibly a card. Don't like going over this stuff too much though as they should have beaten 15 men, but didn't.
 
Sorry for the change of topic. Hoping to get tickets for the Ire NZ match in November for a 60th birthday present. Does anyone have advice on the best way to get them?
 
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