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  #11  
Old 20-04-2011, 02:26 PM
The Curious Lozenge The Curious Lozenge is offline
 
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angry birds is some game tho
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When did Italy become a Latin country?
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it's about time they made this similar to the 7s and broth in a bowl, plate, shield to give teams more gams.
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  #12  
Old 20-04-2011, 02:56 PM
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This is mindboggling. I didn't realise all this stuff was going on. Why can't everyone just get along....man?
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  #13  
Old 20-04-2011, 03:33 PM
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This is mindboggling. I didn't realise all this stuff was going on. Why can't everyone just get along....man?
This is merely scratching the surface.

http://carljonard.com/2008/07/jackas...klin-loufrani/

This ************* (he's very litigious) sued Nokia because....they used to put little smiley faces in varous places around the phone. It was a bit of a tradition for engineers to put it into designs, a little smiley face etched in the antenna, arranging resistors or ground vias into one, that sort of thing. Pretty harmless and stuff that, unless you took the phone apart, you'd never see it.
As you can see on the earpiece of the legendary 5110 model:




Until that ******* sued Nokia for it.

And won.


What a ******
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  #14  
Old 20-04-2011, 03:40 PM
Lostmeringtopaddypower Lostmeringtopaddypower is offline
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Been some tiny movement on that today:
http://www.smartgorillas.com/?p=3906

They'd also want to be careful about poking Nokia too hard. Nokia invented the smartphone as it is and has been (and still is) at the forefront of telecoms for 20 years. Apple probably violate dozens of Nokia patents, certainly if you look at what they're sueing Samsung for.
The phone icon?
Rounded icons?


It's pretty much a shitstorm as it is:



God knows how much time and money in brilliant telecoms companies is being wasted on this shit.

Qualcomm used to be at the centre of all of that, until they pulled themselves together, stopped sueing anyone who tried to do anything that even vaguely resembled CDMA and got on with making excellent chips.
Conversation excerpt from the Legal dept. in Kodak.

"How did that RIM JOB work out for you, Simon?"

"Sloppy, James - the outcome was ugly for all involved"
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  #15  
Old 20-04-2011, 04:02 PM
waveform waveform is offline
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It's pretty much a shitstorm as it is:

That is the most epic picture posted in the history of the Tech Forum!
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  #16  
Old 25-04-2011, 12:14 PM
umma08 umma08 is offline
 
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indeed, there is a lot of cross company litigation.

it is merely an economic model of the prisoners dilemna, ie game theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_dilemma

and with respect to the original post, it was Apple that sued Samsung initially, due to the Samsung Tab being too similar to the Ipad, so Samsung then had to counter sue.
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  #17  
Old 26-04-2011, 10:02 AM
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indeed, there is a lot of cross company litigation.

it is merely an economic model of the prisoners dilemna, ie game theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_dilemma

and with respect to the original post, it was Apple that sued Samsung initially, due to the Samsung Tab being too similar to the Ipad, so Samsung then had to counter sue.
It's not really related to the prisoner's dilemma (I wanted to do a game theoretic analysis of the mobile phone industry, based upon the emergence of LTE for my economics dissertation, but my supervisor vetoed it, on the basis that it's not really suited to it...).



The article has a good detailed story about the iPad suit. I just wasn't sure whether or not Samsung would countersue. It looks like they have been trying to clear this up for a while, so possibly, it was Apple getting its retaliation in first.

Apple are taking on a lot of fights that I really don't think they should. It's not a good sign and the sort of thing that tends to bog a company down.

As a newcomer to the industry, I think it's actually pretty foolish of them to piss off the encumbants too much, legally speaking, especially as they refuse to pay into the patent pools the rest of the industry uses. They might be smart, but most of the operators have tried stuff similar to what Apple is doing now to cause them serious, serious trouble. The Samsung suit for data tethering is a good example of that. It's a hell of a lot more serious and much easier to prove than the sort of patent Apple is attacking with.

If proved, it could force Apple to fork out vast sums, disable tethering entirely on the iPhone, iPad and iTouch or even block sales entirely.

It's an unbelievable problem in the industry, I think RIM have been the biggest victim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Researc...ent_litigation

A patent for wireless email ended up costing RIM $612.5 million.

Apple are sueing the holders of pretty much every single damned patent in the industry. They only need to have a go at Ericsson to complete the full house.
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  #18  
Old 26-04-2011, 11:17 AM
umma08 umma08 is offline
 
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It's not really related to the prisoner's dilemma (I wanted to do a game theoretic analysis of the mobile phone industry, based upon the emergence of LTE for my economics dissertation, but my supervisor vetoed it, on the basis that it's not really suited to it...).
that is surprising - as i too have a degree in economics and it seems a classic case.

perhaps your supervisor vetoed it as he felt it might have been problematic getting first hand information and data on the legal details - obviously.

you would have been relying on secondary sources, which isn't the best for basing a thesis on.

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Originally Posted by How bad boy View Post

The article has a good detailed story about the iPad suit. I just wasn't sure whether or not Samsung would countersue. It looks like they have been trying to clear this up for a while, so possibly, it was Apple getting its retaliation in first.

Apple are taking on a lot of fights that I really don't think they should. It's not a good sign and the sort of thing that tends to bog a company down.

As a newcomer to the industry, I think it's actually pretty foolish of them to piss off the encumbants too much, legally speaking, especially as they refuse to pay into the patent pools the rest of the industry uses. They might be smart, but most of the operators have tried stuff similar to what Apple is doing now to cause them serious, serious trouble. The Samsung suit for data tethering is a good example of that. It's a hell of a lot more serious and much easier to prove than the sort of patent Apple is attacking with.

If proved, it could force Apple to fork out vast sums, disable tethering entirely on the iPhone, iPad and iTouch or even block sales entirely.

It's an unbelievable problem in the industry, I think RIM have been the biggest victim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Researc...ent_litigation

A patent for wireless email ended up costing RIM $612.5 million.

Apple are sueing the holders of pretty much every single damned patent in the industry. They only need to have a go at Ericsson to complete the full house.
its odd, i accept, and probably goes far deeper than I fully understand. but it does seem a classic example of game theory.

but perhaps all the litigation processes are merely counter actions - or actions in case of counter actions? hard to gather dates for this kind of stuff, i would imagine.

also i would see Apple at this stage as being one the major players, if not the, in the industry. but i guess that depends where you are drawing lines between segments/markets.

they are certainly one of the best performers in terms of revenue and profit ratios, and probably also have some of the best market penetration figures.

couple that to the fact that they have perhaps the highest goodwill figure, and are also seen as the market leader by most of the industry press, points to Apple being far more than a 'newcomer', in my eyes anyway!
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  #19  
Old 26-04-2011, 11:43 AM
How bad boy How bad boy is offline
 
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that is surprising - as i too have a degree in economics and it seems a classic case.

perhaps your supervisor vetoed it as he felt it might have been problematic getting first hand information and data on the legal details - obviously.

you would have been relying on secondary sources, which isn't the best for basing a thesis on.
More that the situation is far, far more complex than it initially seemed, with such a wide range of players. It's not really a classic oligopoly, especially when you consider the various sectors. Apple aren't in the top 5 mobile phone manufacturers worldwide by volume, (In order, Nokia, Samsung, LG, RIM, Sony Ericsson), but they have, by some estimates, the highest profits in the industry.

You have to go into subsectors with smartphones (itself a loose term), to get apple as a big player, volume-wise. What is classed as a smart phone and what is not is difficult to classify (e.g. some studies erronously say Symbian isn't one), and many companies don't publish seperate figures so even getting your boundry conditions clearly defined is exceptionally difficult.

So yeah, difficult data it's not really an oligopoly. Instead, I did an analysis of technology capability development in Chinese handset manufacturers. In any case, android is driving commoditisation of the handset. Makes game theory extremely difficult, if not impossible. Glad I didn't go near it as a subject.
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Originally Posted by umma08 View Post
its odd, i accept, and probably goes far deeper than I fully understand. but it does seem a classic example of game theory.

but perhaps all the litigation processes are merely counter actions - or actions in case of counter actions? hard to gather dates for this kind of stuff, i would imagine.
Hard to tell. Not buying into the patent pool annoyed many, as they felt Apple was simply ripping off their technologies without paying for them.
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also i would see Apple at this stage as being one the major players, if not the, in the industry. but i guess that depends where you are drawing lines between segments/markets.

they are certainly one of the best performers in terms of revenue and profit ratios, and probably also have some of the best market penetration figures.

couple that to the fact that they have perhaps the highest goodwill figure, and are also seen as the market leader by most of the industry press, points to Apple being far more than a 'newcomer', in my eyes anyway!
Time-wise, they're a total newcomer, with only 4 years phone experience.

The 20th anniversary of Nokia's first GSM handset launch is coming up in July. Motorola invented the thing. Rim have been in the business for almost 2 decades now. Ericsson have been in communications for 125 years.

There's also equipment makers you probably wouldn't think about such as Cisco, Alcatel-Lucent, Nortel (whose patent pool is a big target of RIM's), Qualcomm, NEC, Texas Instruments, NVidia, ST, IBM all of whom have little real association with Apple, but have tens of thousands of patents to protect.

Hell, I bet Intel aren't happy with Apple right now (as they're looking to move away from Infineon Wireless, a division of Infineon recently sold to Intel), it's another potential lawsuit in the offing. I know that Apple and Infineon have been warring for years over Infineon's chipset, with Apple alleging that Infineon's chipsets are the reason Apple's RF performance is so shit, with Infineon blaming Apple's antenna designers.

It's made everyone in the industry very wary of working with them and more than happy to see them knocked off their perch.

Having worked for 4/5 (it's complicated...) of the companies listed above, I think that' a pretty accurate assessment.

They've a lot of money in the bank, but if they're going to keep sueing everyone, that's going to drop pretty quickly. Qualcomm made that mistake 10 years ago.
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:31 AM
How bad boy How bad boy is offline
 
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Hmm...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05...ore_apple_biz/

That would be a very radical move. It would involve shifting iOS away from ARM, which will hit their power consumption performance. Unless, that is, Intel finally delivers what they've been promising for a good decade now...

Or, if they're going to start licensing ARM properly, in which case, ARM's shares are a fantastic buy today. I seriously doubt that, as they have almost no experience with it.

Slightly odd rumour, TBH. I would have thought they'd have gone with something from Texas Instruments, Qualcomm or NVidia instead.
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