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  #61  
Old 18-09-2008, 02:10 PM
Wallace Wallace is offline
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Incidentally, there's only 4 phones I know of that don't use solid state tech, the two flavours of the Nokia N91 and two relatively unsuccessful phones from Samsung.

Cheers for that , makes more sense alright. Some of those difficulties are enforced though , purely by the fact that the networks are so spread an uneven , there are a lot more variables for the handset manufacturer/ Designer ( ie you ) to compensate for. It might be hard for us to convince the General Population though to accept wireless comms as common and as widespread as Electricity or cables in the ground . Shame that. cause it might help alleviate , even if it wouldn't go far enough to resolve the other difficulties.

( On the Solid state , I was kinda thinking forwards to newer solid state tech in development , probably about 15 years down the line though, that would really drop down the consumption )
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  #62  
Old 18-09-2008, 02:39 PM
Proinsias Proinsias is offline
 
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Cheers for that , makes more sense alright. Some of those difficulties are enforced though , purely by the fact that the networks are so spread an uneven , there are a lot more variables for the handset manufacturer/ Designer ( ie you ) to compensate for. It might be hard for us to convince the General Population though to accept wireless comms as common and as widespread as Electricity or cables in the ground . Shame that. cause it might help alleviate , even if it wouldn't go far enough to resolve the other difficulties.

( On the Solid state , I was kinda thinking forwards to newer solid state tech in development , probably about 15 years down the line though, that would really drop down the consumption )
The problem with current consumption is getting more difficult the further down the line we get with the semiconductor sizes. I won't go into it as it's really quite difficult stuff but leakage from gates is one of the biggest problems with current consumption. Putting it simplistically, this tends to increase as you shrink gate sizes as you have fewer atoms to stop the leakage.

This is a fundamental problem of physics and is very, very, very difficult to solve.

The other thing about the uneven spread of wireless, well, that's such a complicated point that it's difficult to answer without writing paragraphs about how wireless networks work at a fundamental level.

In cities we do have, by in large, universal, decent speed wireless broadband. If you've not used HSDPA on the 7.2Mbps standard, try it out. It's impressive.

To keep it short, I suppose I'll deal with what happens if you've got like a cloud mesh. What we've got with LTE and WiMAX is a technology called MIMO. It's basically having multiple antennas working on the same protocol. This is different to how things worked before. Anyway, right now you have one phone antenna talking to one base station antenna at any one time. One data path

The stuff I'm working on will change that. At first, you'll have two antennas talking to two base stations. That gives 4 data paths and thus 4 times faster.
3 phone antennas, 3 base station antennas (or 3 base stations), 9 data paths, 9 times faster.

And so on.

Only problem is, to deal with that level of complexity, you need a vast amount of processing power. Which means more current consumption, more heat, and so on. I can't give details but it's going to be the number one problem with this stuff.

In that environment, cloud computing at a high speed is simple but only for hours at a time.

Sorry if I've rambled on but as it's what I'm working on. We developed the very first LTE mobile phone in the world last feb, can't tell you how long it ran on batteries but let's just say it wasn't long and we had to include a fan.
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  #63  
Old 18-09-2008, 03:37 PM
Wallace Wallace is offline
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Originally Posted by Proinsias View Post
The problem with current consumption is getting more difficult the further down the line we get with the semiconductor sizes. I won't go into it as it's really quite difficult stuff but leakage from gates is one of the biggest problems with current consumption. Putting it simplistically, this tends to increase as you shrink gate sizes as you have fewer atoms to stop the leakage.

This is a fundamental problem of physics and is very, very, very difficult to solve.

The other thing about the uneven spread of wireless, well, that's such a complicated point that it's difficult to answer without writing paragraphs about how wireless networks work at a fundamental level.

In cities we do have, by in large, universal, decent speed wireless broadband. If you've not used HSDPA on the 7.2Mbps standard, try it out. It's impressive.

To keep it short, I suppose I'll deal with what happens if you've got like a cloud mesh. What we've got with LTE and WiMAX is a technology called MIMO. It's basically having multiple antennas working on the same protocol. This is different to how things worked before. Anyway, right now you have one phone antenna talking to one base station antenna at any one time. One data path

The stuff I'm working on will change that. At first, you'll have two antennas talking to two base stations. That gives 4 data paths and thus 4 times faster.
3 phone antennas, 3 base station antennas (or 3 base stations), 9 data paths, 9 times faster.

And so on.

Only problem is, to deal with that level of complexity, you need a vast amount of processing power. Which means more current consumption, more heat, and so on. I can't give details but it's going to be the number one problem with this stuff.

In that environment, cloud computing at a high speed is simple but only for hours at a time.

Sorry if I've rambled on but as it's what I'm working on. We developed the very first LTE mobile phone in the world last feb, can't tell you how long it ran on batteries but let's just say it wasn't long and we had to include a fan.



Cheers I can see now where the issues are , and your right it's complicated which is why a better battery is the simplest solution



* scurries off there to get building the necessary infrastructure for all the base stations and antennae he's going have to have installed to deal with allthe phones on the way .....

Pauses realises he's living in Ireland , which will give him at least 6 months more......

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  #64  
Old 18-09-2008, 03:50 PM
Proinsias Proinsias is offline
 
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Cheers I can see now where the issues are , and your right it's complicated which is why a better battery is the simplest solution



* scurries off there to get building the necessary infrastructure for all the base stations and antennae he's going have to have installed to deal with allthe phones on the way .....

Pauses realises he's living in Ireland , which will give him at least 6 months more......

It's due to come out end 2010.

Hurry up.


Unfortunately, we're unlikely to have better battery technology by then so the guy sitting across from me had better do a great job...
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