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  #1  
Old 08-08-2006, 03:55 AM
St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes is offline
 
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Default Man Utd discipline

Just been looking through the stats on the current Man Utd team, particularly their disciplinary record. Of the fifty odd in the current squad, 25 have never been sent off. In terms of regular first team players the only ones to have been sent off are Neville (3), Ferdinand (1), Brown (1), Ronaldo (2, surprisingly enough), Rooney (1), Smith (1), Scholes (3), Solskjaer (1), Fletcher (2), and Silvestre (1).

Is it just me or do these figures point to a distinct lack of hard men in the first eleven? Now, I'm not advocating a return to the glory days of 1970s Leeds, but Robson, Pallister, Bruce, Keane, Ince, Hughes, Moran, McGrath, Cantona, et al all got sent off way more than that and contributed much more to the team. I'm beginning to think that the reason Fergie's lost his way in the transfer market over the past five or six years is his reluctance to sign hard men. When Keane started to go downhill it was the end of a long line of United hard men, people who weren't afraid to get stuck in to the opposition on rainy midweek games in January.

You can sign all the Ronaldos you want, but United have always had a few nutcases and, in my opinion, that's what's missing most at the moment. He should have tried everything he could to sign Gattuso.
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Old 08-08-2006, 04:06 AM
Rebelred Rebelred is offline
 
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don't think you can put it down to any one thing in particular, Fergie has been losing his tyrant style grip of control on the players for quite a while now, although I have to admit the most exciting United team I can remember was the 93/94 team, which contained alot of the hard bastards you mentioned. Standards have slipped since 2002 in particular, and the rebuilding process is realistically going to take some time, whether Fergie is the man to do it remains open to question.
Gattuso would be an addition to any team, but with Milan somehow pulling a houdini act in the match fixing scandal, none of their players (sheva aside) were ever going to be available for transfer
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Old 08-08-2006, 04:16 AM
St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes is offline
 
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I don't know. I've always thought that the truly great club managers never really achieved anything on their own. If you look at Shankly, Clough, Ferguson, Wenger, Lippi and so on, they always had at least one enforcer on the pitch when they enjoyed their greatest success. Ferguson doesn't have anyone like that at the moment (although there's a slight possibility that Rooney could one day grow into that role).

As to Gattuso, I reckon that if the money's right, any player is available. Christ, if they can afford to budget almost nineteen million for Carrick, where's the harm in paying twenty five million for Gattuso? An opportunity lost, IMO.
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:16 AM
STEVIEG STEVIEG is offline
 
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Gattuso doesn't want to leave and he's very expensive as you say

Carrick is a different player and (for the last time) he is nearer to 13 or 14 million at the moment, 12 of which was provided by chelsea for nothing

Senna is more similar to Gattuso and he is being bought (apparently)
He should fill that role for a couple of years and by then Darron Gibson, David Jones and Richie Jones might well be available, and dare i say it, uniteds best player in pre-season, Darren Fletcher, might have improved up to the level they need there
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:22 AM
STEVIEG STEVIEG is offline
 
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On another note, good to see Uniteds worst tackler has still got his head screwed on

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?h...les+out+return
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:34 AM
STEVIEG STEVIEG is offline
 
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Don't mind the shittiness of the article but check the quotes from Senna Cyril, you might be pleased

MARCOS SENNA is on his way to Manchester United from Villarreal — and has vowed to kick butt.

The Red Devils were given permission yesterday to speak to the tough midfielder after agreeing a £4million fee with the Spaniards.

Senna, 30, will sign a three-year deal worth £4.5m in wages and is expected to be unveiled as a United player this week.

He could even be at their open training session at Old Trafford on Friday at 11am.

United boss Alex Ferguson sees Brazil-born Senna, who played for Spain in the World Cup, as the perfect tough midfielder to complement the skills of Michael Carrick.

And last season Senna proved he has the b***s for a battle after playing almost a full Champions League game with blood oozing from his groin.

He took a whack between the legs in a tackle against Inter Milan but refused to go off — despite his yellow shorts turning red.

Opponents had better get ready for this fearsome figure, who admits his idol is former Brazil hardman Dunga.

Senna’s approach to football seems to be foul first and ask questions later.

And he said: “If I could be like Dunga I would be very happy. He could control a match and knew how to foul.”

Senna says he is not out to maim, just disrupt a game.

He said: “It’s part of the game. I don’t mean ugly fouls that can cause injury.

“Sometimes with a strong challenge you have to be ready to give your team the chance to reorganise and disrupt the rhythm of the opposition.”

These words will raise eyebrows at United, who had two players sent off on Friday.

They are waiting to hear the fate of Wayne Rooney and Paul Scholes following their red cards against Porto in the Amsterdam Tournament.

If United appeal it is likely Rooney will be let off for his supposed push in the face of defender Pepe. But Scholes may be banned for the scything challenge on Quaresma that even Fergie slated.

Senna believes in England you can get away with fouls more than you can in Spain.

He added: “English referees are the best. They let much more go than in Spain. It’s fantastic.”
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Old 08-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Rebelred Rebelred is offline
 
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I'm liking Senna already
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Old 08-08-2006, 02:16 PM
holyfeetholyfingers holyfeetholyfingers is offline
 
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Your right. theres definately a change in man utd. in the past the likes of ferdinand and ronaldo would have been shipped off or thumped into line for their atitudes, but now fergo cant afford to lose them. blame chelsea huh?
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Old 08-08-2006, 02:17 PM
St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVIEG
Gattuso doesn't want to leave and he's very expensive as you say

Carrick is a different player and (for the last time) he is nearer to 13 or 14 million at the moment, 12 of which was provided by chelsea for nothing

Senna is more similar to Gattuso and he is being bought (apparently)
He should fill that role for a couple of years and by then Darron Gibson, David Jones and Richie Jones might well be available, and dare i say it, uniteds best player in pre-season, Darren Fletcher, might have improved up to the level they need there
The point is that, as I said, they nonetheless have to *budget* for nigh on nineteen million quid.

And in fairness, comparing Fletcher to the likes of Robson and Keane is just silly.
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Old 08-08-2006, 02:18 PM
St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes is offline
 
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If Senna turns out to be a traditional hard man I'll be delighted. I'll admit that I don't know much about him though.
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