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  #4231  
Old 03-01-2020, 03:30 PM
rebel_rebel rebel_rebel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeyumyum View Post
https://www.corkcity.ie/en/council-s...ement-schemes/

Things only get built in Cork when there is a chronic need for them. I don't think the solution is to block all private sector investment because we have bad infrastructure. It's using the private sector investment to get the funding for the infrastructure.
No mention on that link that Monahan Road is due an upgrade this year. As far as I know it isn't. The only part that's actually planned currently is Albert Quay and Victoria Road as far as the roundabout at the start of Centre Park Road.

Building 1,100 apartments without any infrastructure is madness. I have zero confidence that this council or government will support this development with the necessary infrastructure including schools and transport links. It'll just become an island of apartments in the industrial zone fully dependent on cars and putting pressure on already stretched schools etc in the area.
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  #4232  
Old 03-01-2020, 03:38 PM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rebel_rebel View Post
Any provider who thinks they could do the job can also object and force an open tendering competition. In reality only BAM / LiveNation can do it but given this ongoing saga, a last minute objection is guaranteed!
How would "Any provider" have legal grounds if they have not originally tendered?

They would have no legal basis whatsoever.

Only O.C.P. can object and they have already developed their site and are not interested.
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  #4233  
Old 03-01-2020, 03:51 PM
rebel_rebel rebel_rebel is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Stacky View Post
How would "Any provider" have legal grounds if they have not originally tendered?

They would have no legal basis whatsoever.

Only O.C.P. can object and they have already developed their site and are not interested.
You don't have to have previously tendered. Directly awarding a public contract in the EU without going through the procurement tendering process is open to challenge. This contract is substantially different (worth c.€50m) versus the original one (worth c.€20m). The legal basis is the EU Procurement Directives. It's unlikely to happen but is possible.
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  #4234  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:03 PM
cakeyumyum cakeyumyum is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel_rebel View Post
No mention on that link that Monahan Road is due an upgrade this year. As far as I know it isn't. The only part that's actually planned currently is Albert Quay and Victoria Road as far as the roundabout at the start of Centre Park Road.

Building 1,100 apartments without any infrastructure is madness. I have zero confidence that this council or government will support this development with the necessary infrastructure including schools and transport links. It'll just become an island of apartments in the industrial zone fully dependent on cars and putting pressure on already stretched schools etc in the area.
I mean, I literally just linked to where it says the Monahan Road upgrades around the proposed Eastern Gateway Bridge and hence this development are in planning.

1,100 apartments will at worst give a business case to provide the necessary upgrades. It would be insanity to try and block this level of investment into accommodation in the city. Its a 15 minute walk from the site to One Albert Quay and Navigation Square, and only another 5 minutes to the North Docks Offices and South Mall. It is walking distance to what will be the biggest employment centre in Cork in two years, there are about 3,000 employed there already. While the area directly around it is run down it is very close to a thriving area of the city, it's not out in the middle of nowhere.

I agree that there needs to be huge investment into the area but the public investment will not come until there is a case on the ground for it. We need a change of attitude that we use these private investments to make the case for public investment rather than trying to block private investment because the public investment didn't proceed it. Otherwise nothing will get done.
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  #4235  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:20 PM
rebel_rebel rebel_rebel is offline
 
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Didn't see that part. Don't think the Part 8 for that has gone anywhere yet. I would place a bet now that construction on that won't begin this year....Do you think it will? And the Eastern Gateway Bridge didn't make the cut in the Ireland 2040 plan unfortunately so that's at least 25/30 years down the track.

I'm not saying block it but not putting in infrastructure is insanity. A road upgrade is fine but what about schools, public transport etc. We need to learn the lessons of trying to retrofit these thing in after people are living there. They need to happen hand in hand. The same old mistakes of building houses and apartments first and then years later trying to fix the infrastructure around it, is stupidity of the highest order. People become car dependent when left without infrastructure.
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  #4236  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:37 PM
cakeyumyum cakeyumyum is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel_rebel View Post
Didn't see that part. Don't think the Part 8 for that has gone anywhere yet. I would place a bet now that construction on that won't begin this year....Do you think it will? And the Eastern Gateway Bridge didn't make the cut in the Ireland 2040 plan unfortunately so that's at least 25/30 years down the track.

I'm not saying block it but not putting in infrastructure is insanity. A road upgrade is fine but what about schools, public transport etc. We need to learn the lessons of trying to retrofit these thing in after people are living there. They need to happen hand in hand. The same old mistakes of building houses and apartments first and then years later trying to fix the infrastructure around it, is stupidity of the highest order. People become car dependent when left without infrastructure.
The Eastern Gateway Bridge won't be built until there are multiple projects like this completed on both sides of the river. There is a zero percent chance of that sort of investment in Cork without there being a clear and obvious need for it in place.

The Centre Park Road and Monahan Road plans both include bus lanes and cycle lanes. Public transport and road upgrades are planned for both roads leading to this development. It's even on the proposed Lee to Sea Greenway. the plans are in place and this development won't hinder those plans, it will help to move them along.
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  #4237  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:43 PM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel_rebel View Post
You don't have to have previously tendered. Directly awarding a public contract in the EU without going through the procurement tendering process is open to challenge. This contract is substantially different (worth c.€50m) versus the original one (worth c.€20m). The legal basis is the EU Procurement Directives. It's unlikely to happen but is possible.
Only open to challenge by an agrieved underbidder.

In this case O.C.P. who are not interested


There are no other design and build consortia out there ready to challenge in the courts or begin a tortuous planning, design and build program with a different operator.
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  #4238  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:47 PM
rebel_rebel rebel_rebel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeyumyum View Post
The Eastern Gateway Bridge won't be built until there are multiple projects like this completed on both sides of the river. There is a zero percent chance of that sort of investment in Cork without there being a clear and obvious need for it in place.

The Centre Park Road and Monahan Road plans both include bus lanes and cycle lanes. Public transport and road upgrades are planned for both roads leading to this development. It's even on the proposed Lee to Sea Greenway. the plans are in place and this development won't hinder those plans, it will help to move them along.
Based on the record of this council in delivering projects I would say that almost everything you have mentioned there will not see the light of day this decade at least.
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  #4239  
Old 06-01-2020, 09:01 PM
Jim Comic Jim Comic is offline
 
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Location: Cork
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https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/New...99bb8be1176-ds
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https://www.facebook.com/Choc-A-Bloc...7028939951391/
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  #4240  
Old 06-01-2020, 11:27 PM
rebel_rebel rebel_rebel is offline
 
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There must be serious money to be made in the student accommodation sector. The only residential units being built in the city are student gaffs.
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