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Old 01-12-2009, 11:31 AM
corcadorca corcadorca is offline
 
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Default Papal envoy's contempt for inquiry

Nuncio in Ireland has denied suggestions that he showed contempt for the institutions of the State by not responding to the Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin.

In his first public comments since the publication of the commission report last week, Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza told The Irish Times that his actions “cannot be taken as such because it is not a contempt against the work of the commission, which we respect”.

Dr Leanza said he was aware of the anger among Irish Catholics about the contents of the report, which found that successive archbishops had responded to clerical child sex abuse within the diocese with “denial, arrogance and cover-up”.

He added: “Do I understand the reaction of the people? Absolutely. We are really very sorry for what has happened. This should never happen again in the future.”

Pope Benedict XVI was aware of the commission report, he said, and he too “absolutely” shared the revulsion of the public about its findings. “He [the pope] has utterly condemned the child abuse – first of all for Ireland during a meeting with the bishops of Ireland in 2006, and again the holy father has condemned child abuse when he was in the United States and Australia and on other occasions,” he said.

Dr Leanza has been strongly criticised for his failure to respond to an extract from a draft report of the commission findings which was sent to him earlier this year.

He said he did not respond to the commission because he was asked for comments on extracts which related to a time before he took over as papal nuncio in April 2008. “Since the document was about 1975 to 2004, I was not in a position to comment on proceedings,” he said.

In September 2006, the commission wrote to the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith seeking information on reports of clerical child sex abuse sent to it by the Dublin archdiocese over the relevant 30-year period. It also sought information on the document Crimen Sollicitationis , which deals with clerical sex abuse. It did not reply.
Instead, it contacted the Department of Foreign Affairs, stating that the commission had not gone through appropriate diplomatic channels. As a body independent of Government, the commission said it did not consider it appropriate to use diplomatic channels.
In February 2007, the commission wrote to the then papal nuncio, Archbishop Giuseppe Lanzzarotto, in Dublin, asking that he forward all documents relevant to it and which had not been or were not produced by the Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin. It also requested that the nuncio confirm if he had no such documents.

Earlier this year the commission again wrote to Dr Leanza, enclosing extracts from its draft report which referred to him and his office, as it was required to do. He did not respond.

In June 2001, every diocesan bishop in the Catholic Church was written to, in Latin, by the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict. They were instructed that, where complaints of clerical child sex abuse were concerned, these were first to be referred to Rome and it would decide how they were to be dealt with.

The Congregation document was accompanied by a letter, also in Latin, stipulating that the instruction was to be kept secret
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Dr Leanza said yesterday that diplomatic protocols meant the Congregation, which is the Vatican’s internal doctrinal watchdog, could not respond to requests for information because the commission was independent of Government and only government institutions can respond to each other. A response would have come had the request come directly from the Government, he said.

Dr Leanza said the findings of the commission had brought “shame” on the Catholic Church.

“I think the church has learned really a big lesson from what happened,” he said.

Last night, Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern, speaking in Brussels, said non-co-operation by church authorities was not acceptable.

“I would not agree with non-co-operation by anyone. This was set up by the State and lack of co-operation by the church I do not think is something that is or was correct,” he said.

“Thankfully there is co-operation now but I do not think the stance of the Vatican was proper, they should have responded to requests for information.”
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:48 PM
Pocahantis Pocahantis is offline
 
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My question is what will it take for the sorry excuse for politicans in the country to do something. Its disgusting and reconfirms that my decision to leave Ireland all those years ago was the right one.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:13 PM
Scipio Africanus Scipio Africanus is offline
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WE decide whether you're acting contemptuously, bishop. Not you. That's not how it works anymore.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:21 PM
hemlock666 hemlock666 is offline
 
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Why is everyone expecting the government to do something about this? Its the people of Ireland who go to church in their droves in spite of the fact that the same clergy are guilty of child abuse, conspiracy to commit child abuse, perverting with the course of justice, pergury and numerous other laws and commandements. Then these self same evil bastards proclaim how great it is to have humility by acknowledging they made mistakes and the nation applauds. The catholic sheep of Ireland are reaping what they sow. In 6 months this will all be in the past and the church will carry on as always. Fucking spiritual leeches the lot of em.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:30 PM
Cliff Barnes Cliff Barnes is offline
 
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If this failed state had an ounce of sense or morality or simply just enforce the rule of law the Catholic Church hierarchy and ALL accused pervert priests would be locked up awaiting trial.

Hate to say it but the northern protestants were right.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by corcadorca View Post

The Vatican’s internal doctrinal watchdog, could not respond to requests for information because the commission was independent of Government and only government institutions can respond to each other.
This bullshitting spin is unbelievable. Absolutely astounding in its arrogance.

The Taoiseach's response has also been very wishy-washy. When something as scandalous as this happens you want your "leader" to come out and reflect the anger of the people. Instead, as always, he bottles it, afraid of upsetting anyone of influence. Trying to be the perfect diplomat instead of shunning the hierarchy of a cult riddled with paedos.

That bishop in Limerick, who ignored all the complaints, should be horse whipped to the nearest jail.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:56 PM
Bandon Langer Bandon Langer is offline
 
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Yup, everyone who goes to mass is supporting the church's position by wya of voting with their feet.

And yes the protestants were right, they left Rome behind a long time ago cos they knew what a filthy, festering snakepit it was and always will be. (even though i'm from Bandon i'm not a protestant, i'm ex-catholic).

Reformations me bollix.

I would like to call for a complete lack of recognition of the church by all ordinary citizens

Eg - never refer to a priest as 'father', refuse to swear on a bible if ever called to court, stop attending mass/donating to the plate, etc.

And becuase those thick fuckers probably won't cop on, make sure you do not mark roman catholic on the next census form.

And by the way folks, this is just the tip of a very shitty irish iceberg (Dr Noel Brown Mother & Child Scheme, Ban of Condoms, Magdeline Laundries, telling catholics to starve rather than take protestant soup to save their souls, etc).

FUCK YOU ST PATRICK FOR WHAT YOU BOUGHT ON US!!!
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:20 PM
corcadorca corcadorca is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bandon Langer View Post
Yup, everyone who goes to mass is supporting the church's position by wya of voting with their feet.

And yes the protestants were right, they left Rome behind a long time ago cos they knew what a filthy, festering snakepit it was and always will be. (even though i'm from Bandon i'm not a protestant, i'm ex-catholic).

Reformations me bollix.

I would like to call for a complete lack of recognition of the church by all ordinary citizens

Eg - never refer to a priest as 'father', refuse to swear on a bible if ever called to court, stop attending mass/donating to the plate, etc.

And becuase those thick fuckers probably won't cop on, make sure you do not mark roman catholic on the next census form.

And by the way folks, this is just the tip of a very shitty irish iceberg (Dr Noel Brown Mother & Child Scheme, Ban of Condoms, Magdeline Laundries, telling catholics to starve rather than take protestant soup to save their souls, etc).

FUCK YOU ST PATRICK FOR WHAT YOU BOUGHT ON US!!!
As for these much vaunted good priests, the injunction not to tar them all with the one brush and similar banal cliched platitudes

'It is an advantage to all narrow wisdom and narrow morals that their maxims have a plausible air; and, on a cursory view, appear equal to first principles. They are light and portable. They are as current as copper coin; and about as valuable. They serve equally the first capacities and the lowest; and they are, at least, as useful to the worst men as to the best. Of this stamp is the cant of not man, but measures; a sort of charm by which many people get loose from every honourable engagement. - Edmund Burke

Or

All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke


X2, exactly what was done with captain boycott et al. Make them social pariahs, refuse to pay their wages, cross the street when you see them coming, refuse to have any interaction with them unless they account for what they are doing, practically, to eliminate the cancer at the heart of the organisation to which they belongand and by (tentacled extension through education, government influence etc) to which all of the rest of us belong. Let's see how long the fuckers continue to equivocate and snub norms of decency and accountability then.

I'm galled to think that people are thinking about church of Ireland, replacing one set of chains for another.


Oh, we shall persuade them that they will only become free when they renounce their freedom to us and submit to us. And shall we be right or shall we be lying? They will be convinced that we are right, for they will remember the horrors of slavery and confusion to which Thy freedom brought them. Freedom, free thought, and science will lead them into such straits and will bring them face to face with such marvels and insoluble mysteries, that some of them, the fierce and rebellious, will destroy themselves, others, rebellious but weak, will destroy one another, while the rest, weak and unhappy, will crawl fawning to our feet and whine to us: “Yes, you were right, you alone possess His mystery, and we come back to you, save us from ourselves!”


“They will become timid and will look to us and huddle close to us in fear, as chicks to the hen. They will marvel at us and will be awe-stricken before us, and will be proud at our being so powerful and clever that we have been able to subdue such a turbulent flock of thousands of millions. They will tremble impotently before our wrath, their minds will grow fearful, they will be quick to shed tears like women and children, but they will be just as ready at a sign from us to pass to laughter and rejoicing, to happy mirth and childish song. Yes, we shall set them to work, but in their leisure hours we shall make their life like a child’s game, with children’s songs and innocent dance. Oh, we shall allow them even sin, they are weak and helpless, and they will love us like children because we allow them to sin. We shall tell them that every sin will be expiated, if it is done with our permission, that we allow them to sin because we love them, and the punishment for these sins we take upon ourselves. And we shall take it upon ourselves, and they will adore us as their saviours who have taken on themselves their sins before God. And they will have no secrets from us. We shall allow or forbid them to live with their wives and mistresses, to have or not to have children according to whether they have been obedient or disobedient — and they will submit to us gladly and cheerfully. The most painful secrets of their conscience, all, all they will bring to us, and we shall have an answer for all. And they will be glad to believe our answer, for it will save them from the great anxiety and terrible agony they endure at present in making a free decision for themselves. And all will be happy, all the millions of creatures except the hundred thousand who rule over them. For only we, we who guard the mystery, shall be unhappy. There will be thousands of millions of happy babes, and a hundred thousand sufferers who have taken upon themselves the curse of the knowledge of good and evil. Peacefully they will die, peacefully they will expire in Thy name, and beyond the grave they will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for their happiness we shall allure them with the reward of heaven and eternity.”


- Grand Inquistor Speech, The Brothers Karamazov
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Originally Posted by two litres of milk View Post
i make an effigy of sharon ni bheolain out of brillo pads and fuck it while snorting lines of washing powder.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:23 PM
ol' painless ol' painless is offline
 
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You can assasinate the Pope in Assasins Creed 2.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:00 PM
richiepurg richiepurg is offline
 
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Eamonn Gilmore didn't go far enough when he called for the removal of all bishops criticised in the report to be removed from public office. There should be an immediate ban by the state on the involvement of the catholic church in all state affairs , given that it's shown to be a sick institution by it's protection of rapists and it's sickening , self serving reaction to the report.
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