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  #501  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:20 PM
Pontipine Pontipine is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxetten View Post
So if boy B is found not guilty of murder he gets off scot free, even though he was deeply involved in the events which led to this girl's murder?
Looks that way. And he could well be another “Boy B” before long if that happens by the sound of things.
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  #502  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:21 PM
Nowelio Nowelio is offline
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It's also unfortunate for the prosecution of Boy A that the two cases where tried together.

If Boy B were tried first and acquited, and a jury may well acquit him just to avoid the labryinth of complications in the judge's "instructions", then he could be called as a witness in the subsequent trial of Boy A.

A witness is obliged to give evidence, and Boy B would then presumably tell the story of what he saw his mate do from the time they met in the park till the time the girl died, only this time it could be admitted as evidence.
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  #503  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:21 PM
Donald Trump Donald Trump is offline
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Originally Posted by Matlock View Post
If the Jury find that he was deeply involved in the events which led to the murder they can convict of murder afaik.
Think that’s the point the judge made yesterday. If he brought her there knowing what boy A had planned he is guilty of murder.


But if he just brought here there not knowing what was planned he is not.
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  #504  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:22 PM
The Banker The Banker is offline
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A will hang
B will walk
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  #505  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:24 PM
Happyhonkaman Happyhonkaman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump View Post
Think that’s the point the judge made yesterday. If he brought her there knowing what boy A had planned he is guilty of murder.


But if he just brought here there not knowing what was planned he is not.
yep

I think he was also trying to be extremely clear about the difference between murder and manslaughter in that if they lured her there to abuse her, and ended up killing her the jury need to consider that
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  #506  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:30 PM
budwards dad budwards dad is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyhonkaman View Post
yep

I think he was also trying to be extremely clear about the difference between murder and manslaughter in that if they lured her there to abuse her, and ended up killing her the jury need to consider that
Sure we have a low murder rate here , simply because our courts rarely convict anyone of it ... massaging the numbers.
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  #507  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:31 PM
Nowelio Nowelio is offline
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Quote:
If the Jury find that he was deeply involved in the events which led to the murder they can convict of murder afaik.
No, he can be convicted only if the jury is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he knew Boy A was going to commit murder, according to the judge's bizarre summary yesterday.

The judge doesn't seem to be allowing for any middle ground. So while Boy B may have picked up the girl and taken her to the park by arrangement with Boy A, knowing that A didn't intend anything good with her (as he hated her), then handed her over to Boy A and accompanying them to the house, where he sees his mate savagely attack her, strip her naked and sexually assaul her, before doing the final deed - he still isn't guilty.

If the prosecution did not prove that he definitely knew all along that Boy A intended to murder her, and even though he refused to intervene when he saw the girl in this desperate predicament that he had put her in, he is still - according to the judge yesterday - not guilty of any crime.

But this is the best legal system, I hear you say.
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  #508  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:34 PM
BBJ BBJ is offline
 
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The jury has been sent home for the day.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/...4-ana-kriegel/
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  #509  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:41 PM
Róisín_Rua Róisín_Rua is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowelio View Post
No, he can be convicted only if the jury is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he knew Boy A was going to commit murder, according to the judge's bizarre summary yesterday.

The judge doesn't seem to be allowing for any middle ground. So while Boy B may have picked up the girl and taken her to the park by arrangement with Boy A, knowing that A didn't intend anything good with her (as he hated her), then handed her over to Boy A and accompanying them to the house, where he sees his mate savagely attack her, strip her naked and sexually assaul her, before doing the final deed - he still isn't guilty.

If the prosecution did not prove that he definitely knew all along that Boy A intended to murder her, and even though he refused to intervene when he saw the girl in this desperate predicament that he had put her in, he is still - according to the judge yesterday - not guilty of any crime.

But this is the best legal system, I hear you say.
That's pretty horrific, to be honest. He was the one that set it all up and basically he led her to her death.
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  #510  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:57 PM
Roxetten Roxetten is online now
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Boy B admitted to Gardai that Boy A had mentioned his intention to kill Ana Kriegel a month before her death but Boy B had thought he wasn't being serious, even so he still led her to that abandoned house and to Boy A, for all his lies in interviews he really did trip himself up and if found guilty it will be as a result of his own statements to Gardai, the forensic evidence against Boy A is overwhelming.
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