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Billy Kelleher's Abortion Agenda - Page 13 - Peoples Republic Of Cork Discussion Forums

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  #121  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:07 PM
an liathroid beag an liathroid beag is offline
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I suspect some GPs will have reservations about this.
I suspect that a lot of GPs would exempt themselves on grounds of conscience. I checked the prices of medical abortions up to 12 weeks (Abortion Pill) on the BPAS Abortion.ie and it was 520 Euro so GPs that would opt to become abortionists could earn some serious money. I suspect that a lot of GPs would not want to associate their GP clinics with abortion.
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  #122  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:22 PM
SoundMan SoundMan is offline
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Originally Posted by an liathroid beag View Post
I suspect that a lot of GPs would exempt themselves on grounds of conscience. I checked the prices of medical abortions up to 12 weeks (Abortion Pill) on the BPAS Abortion.ie and it was 520 Euro so GPs that would opt to become abortionists could earn some serious money. I suspect that a lot of GPs would not want to associate their GP clinics with abortion.
It certainly would be an emotive issue and I agree there'll likely be many GPs who'll not want to associate themselves or their co-workers with abortion no matter how much it pays.

Interesting that Billy Kelleher would seem to want to impose this on GPs though.
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  #123  
Old 08-01-2018, 06:28 PM
TopicGrinder TopicGrinder is offline
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It isn't being imposed on anyone. Under Medical Council guidelines, it is permitted for a doctor to refuse to provide or to take part in the provision of lawful treatments or forms of care that conflict with sincerely held ethical or moral values.

Who do you think would be better involved in administering an abortion pill? Chemists with no patient medical histories, A&E, specific abortion clinics where women going through one of the most traumatic times of their lifes can be abused,heckled, bullied and threatened, hse staffed medical centres with no nurses?
If it is made legal, then a GP makes perfect sense for both the privacy and safety of a patient and GP.

Last edited by TopicGrinder; 08-01-2018 at 08:17 PM..
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  #124  
Old 09-01-2018, 10:05 AM
SoundMan SoundMan is offline
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It isn't being imposed on anyone. Under Medical Council guidelines, it is permitted for a doctor to refuse to provide or to take part in the provision of lawful treatments or forms of care that conflict with sincerely held ethical or moral values.

Who do you think would be better involved in administering an abortion pill? Chemists with no patient medical histories, A&E, specific abortion clinics where women going through one of the most traumatic times of their lifes can be abused,heckled, bullied and threatened, hse staffed medical centres with no nurses?
If it is made legal, then a GP makes perfect sense for both the privacy and safety of a patient and GP.
You don't think Chemists should be providing the Morning After Pill?

What happens if someone wants an abortion but their GP doesn't want to administer it - she must attend a different GP and given that the lady in question wasn't served by her original GP it's unlikely she'd return to him/her. Might prompt questions like "Why have you changed GP Mary?"
Or it might put unfair pressure on GPs who don't want to carry out abortions but don't want to alienate patients whom they've built up a history of care with over many years.

I don't think there's any easy answers in all this but I don't think you're correct with your above assumptions.
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  #125  
Old 09-01-2018, 10:38 AM
TopicGrinder TopicGrinder is offline
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You don't think Chemists should be providing the Morning After Pill?
Where did I say that? Do you know the difference between the abortion pill and the morning after pill?

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What happens if someone wants an abortion but their GP doesn't want to administer it - she must attend a different GP and given that the lady in question wasn't served by her original GP it's unlikely she'd return to him/her. Might prompt questions like "Why have you changed GP Mary?"
Or it might put unfair pressure on GPs who don't want to carry out abortions but don't want to alienate patients whom they've built up a history of care with over many years.
It may or may not, I don't know as I have never been asked why I changed GP.

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I don't think there's any easy answers in all this but I don't think you're correct with your above assumptions.
What assumptions?

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I don't think there's any easy answers in all this .
Agreed, that is why it is important to have the correct info out there instead of leaving out details like the GPs' "opt out" clause

Last edited by TopicGrinder; 09-01-2018 at 10:56 AM..
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  #126  
Old 09-01-2018, 06:04 PM
an liathroid beag an liathroid beag is offline
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It certainly would be an emotive issue and I agree there'll likely be many GPs who'll not want to associate themselves or their co-workers with abortion no matter how much it pays.

Interesting that Billy Kelleher would seem to want to impose this on GPs though.
Discussed Kellehers proposed GP led abortion provision with my GP (whom I have known since college days) and he was extremely sceptical of the proposal.

He said that GPs could opt out and he cited the example of Italy. Up to 80% of doctors opted out of abortions both on ethical grounds and interestingly also on professional reputational grounds. Many Gyneocologists opted out of abortions because they feared damage to their gyneocology practice with the result it was often difficult to obtain a surgical abortions in Italy where abortion is legal since 1978. Apparently there is a heirarchy of esteem within the specialities of the medical profession with abortionist at the bottom.

My GP pointed out that prescribing the abortion pill involved more than just
giving the pills to a woman and telling them to go home and lie down while
aborting.
Any participating GP would have to provide what is essentially a specialised abortion service. This would involve an initial consultation with the woman and an ultrasound scan of the pregnancy to determine stage (illegal after 12 weeks) and position (intrauterine or extrauterine). If the the pregnancy was deemed to be less than 9 weeks he could prescribe the abortion pills to the woman Milepristone (the primer) and Misoprostal which triggers the abortion and give her the approprioate instructions to carry out the abortion at home.
Between 9 and 12 weeks he would administer the Misoprostal in the clinic and the woman would remain in the clinic until the baby was aborted.
As a follow up service another scan would be carried out to ensure the abortion was complete. In a small percentage of cases Misoprostal would fail and a surgical abortion would have to be carried out as the baby would be severely damaged.
My GP was of the opinion that a GP practice who provided such abortion services would lose most of its general patients and would end up a a specialised abortion clinic.

Billy Kelleher will have to rethink his GP led abortion on demand service proposal.
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  #127  
Old 09-01-2018, 07:56 PM
Flirty Flossie Flirty Flossie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by an liathroid beag View Post
Discussed Kellehers proposed GP led abortion provision with my GP (whom I have known since college days) and he was extremely sceptical of the proposal.

He said that GPs could opt out and he cited the example of Italy. Up to 80% of doctors opted out of abortions both on ethical grounds and interestingly also on professional reputational grounds. Many Gyneocologists opted out of abortions because they feared damage to their gyneocology practice with the result it was often difficult to obtain a surgical abortions in Italy where abortion is legal since 1978. Apparently there is a heirarchy of esteem within the specialities of the medical profession with abortionist at the bottom.

My GP pointed out that prescribing the abortion pill involved more than just
giving the pills to a woman and telling them to go home and lie down while
aborting.
Any participating GP would have to provide what is essentially a specialised abortion service. This would involve an initial consultation with the woman and an ultrasound scan of the pregnancy to determine stage (illegal after 12 weeks) and position (intrauterine or extrauterine). If the the pregnancy was deemed to be less than 9 weeks he could prescribe the abortion pills to the woman Milepristone (the primer) and Misoprostal which triggers the abortion and give her the approprioate instructions to carry out the abortion at home.
Between 9 and 12 weeks he would administer the Misoprostal in the clinic and the woman would remain in the clinic until the baby was aborted.
As a follow up service another scan would be carried out to ensure the abortion was complete. In a small percentage of cases Misoprostal would fail and a surgical abortion would have to be carried out as the baby would be severely damaged.
My GP was of the opinion that a GP practice who provided such abortion services would lose most of its general patients and would end up a a specialised abortion clinic.

Billy Kelleher will have to rethink his GP led abortion on demand service proposal.
Cannot see my Auntie May go to an abortion clinic to get her varicose veins checked. Auntie May a died in the wool FF supporter will not be pleased with Billy
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Last edited by Flirty Flossie; 09-01-2018 at 08:13 PM..
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  #128  
Old 09-01-2018, 11:44 PM
applehunter applehunter is offline
 
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Conscientious objectors are coming under pressure worldwide.

What about the secretary or even the cleaners. Are they now going to have to move jobs if this is introduced?

I have 6 doctors in my family and all 6 would be against bringing in abortion as proposed.

"First, Do no harm" is the first principle in medicine.
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  #129  
Old 09-01-2018, 11:51 PM
TopicGrinder TopicGrinder is offline
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What about the secretary or even the cleaners. Are they now going to have to move jobs if this is introduced?
Once what is introduced?
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  #130  
Old 09-01-2018, 11:59 PM
applehunter applehunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TopicGrinder View Post
Once what is introduced?
Abortion medication.
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