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Woman murdered in Tullamore..

Ah stop, we were bombarded with media specials across radio and TV which died a death when the nationality was made know. Obviously you disagree as it suits your narrative but that is a fact, it did happen.
When his nationality and identity because known the story moved on to who he was. As is normal in such cases.

I agree that the narrative moved on, just not for the reasons that you claim.
 
I don't dispute the fact that women feel unsafe alot particularly when in exposed positions like out for a walk/run at night, in fact I know it to be true as women who are close to me have told me so and given me examples.

In relation to "Irish men need to do better", what does this actually look like for those of us that aren't a danger to women or anyone else for that matter? I see this phrase thrown around regularly without any context!

I often walk my dogs very early in the morning or late at night as they are big dogs I like to let off the lead to run/play and prefer to do so when there isn't that many people and other dogs around, I often encounter women who are walking/running and try to give them as wide a berth as possible to ensure they aren't intimated by my presence however most are friendly and say hello or stop to pet my dogs.

I accept there are many more dangers out there for women than men but outside of respecting peoples space which should be common courtesy afforded to everyone (men & women) how exactly do I need to do better?
Would, or do, you call out others on their behaviour?

That's a big part of it, I think. Lots of men wouldn't do anything disrespectful or intimidating towards a woman, but they wouldn't get involved if someone else did.

I absolutely get that sometimes that is out of fear for their own safety, but it is also sometimes out of embarrassment or just not wanting to cause a fuss or be seen as a wuss, or no craic, or whatever.
 
Knock, I come from a household where chivalry was insisted upon, and my own youngfella equally will open the front door and stand back to let the girls in, but there is a point at which it is debatable what can actually be done in practical terms to improve this. I imagine the fear women have when walking alone is primarily based on the fact that a male will almost certainly overpower them if the situation arose, and secondly there are numerous instances of it happening every year so it is real and certainly not imaginary. However, switching sides of the road is valiant and everything, but is it really achieving much, and does it really make women feel any safer? The vast majority of Irish boys are brought up by their parents to respect women and not to attack women, or anyone else for that matter - As a parent I didn't need anyone to tell me this, and I cant imagine many would since all men have a mother and most will have sisters, wives, female friends etc etc. I am fairly certain that none of my friends or family would attack a woman. The Irish men need to talk to your boys stuff was fairly patronising for most, my wife disagreed with it profusely at the time and still would. I would imagine that in most cases where a woman has been attacked and sexually assaulted there are some mental issues at play? Glad to be corrected if thats not the case.

My own missus goes walking alone in the evenings so its dark at the moment, I'd prefer if she didn't and went with a friend or neighbour but she tends to take the opportunity as it arises so planning ahead doesn't always happen. In that case all she can really do to protect herself is walk somewhere well lit, and ideally where others will be walking. Both of those measures are going to be significantly more effective than men crossing the road when they approach her. I dont think she should wear headphones as it is one of the senses removed but thats her call. The lady that was knocked down by a van that mounted the running path intentionally and mowed down a few years back was a friends wife. My wife still walks there regularly, its just one of those tragic things that happened for some reason that has never come to light, no amount of people switching paths or whatever will make her feel more or less safe.

When Im running and encounter a women or women up ahead I tend to start a bit of a cough to try give a signal that someone is behind them and generally I'll leave the pavement and run on the road passing them unless there are cars obviously. When it is dark I would have flashing lights on my running bib so they might get a flicker of those approaching, but darting across the road with traffic and back again just seems pointless
Thanks for that reply, basically all that makes perfect sense to me.
Re the below bit
."The Irish men need to talk to your boys stuff was fairly patronising for most, my wife disagreed with it profusely at the time and still would"

Yes it can come across as patronising but the message is the most important bit and it shouldn't get lost in however we feel its delivered. Of course as a parent if you are doing the right things by your kids then somebody coming across as preachy or patronising will irk and annoy and commentators could and should have cognisance of describing things in a one fits all form, its never that simple

Sorry for the loss of your friends wife may she RIP.
 
I think you are making the mistake of assuming that because you don't personally do anything wrong and you are fairly certain that none of your family and friends would do anything wrong, that wrong things aren't happening.

Statistically though, you are likely to know at least one man who has abused a woman. There are just too many abused women for that not to be the case.

Nope, this is what I posted:

I imagine the fear women have when walking alone is primarily based on the fact that a male will almost certainly overpower them if the situation arose, and secondly there are numerous instances of it happening every year so it is real and certainly not imaginary.

A friends sister was raped while we were in college, and a friends wife knocked down and killed intentionally by a man she didn't know like I also posted. I'm well aware that wrong things are happening!
 
Nope, this is what I posted:



A friends sister was raped while we were in college, and a friends wife knocked down and killed intentionally like I also posted. I'm well aware that wrong things are happening!
Firstly, my condolences on those awful things that happened to people you knew. That's awful.

I don't see how you can see those things and then also think that the suggestion that you should talk to your sons is unreasonable though.

It is men who are doing this. Not all men, not most men, but overwhelmingly men.

So talking to your sons about consent and respect etc hardly seems like a big ask in the circumstances.

If you feel it is patronising, fine, I get how it could be. I'd happily have a patronising conversation with my son if I thought it would help to lower the chances of my daughter being raped (or my son being raped) though.

I don't want men to feel like they are the enemy. Some of my best friends are men ;-) But misogyny is on the rise. Online treatment of women, particularly young women, is shockingly violent. Men have to play a role in protecting their kids against the Andrew Tates of this world.
 
There's men out there who've been physically abused, sexually abused, psychologically abused, financially abused, who've been victims of coercive control, men who've been sexually assaulted, and worse, who are fuming about this stuff. If you look at any of the same sex LGBT spaces they have frequent warnings about the variety of abuse, and finding safety, out of same sex relationships. In both gay and lesbian relationships.

People can talk all they want about "men doing better" but until there's a recognition that abuse is abuse, and violence is violence is violence, it's going to do nothing to get people to face up to the idea victims aren't victims because of some innate aspect of themselves (and are therefore to blame) or some innate aspect of another person (so it's just their makeup) but because some evil fucker is an abuser.

It rings hollow to lay blame and responsibility wholesale on any one group, and excuses it in a lot of ways, instead of focusing on the behaviour that's unacceptable, and not the demographic.
 
Firstly, my condolences on those awful things that happened to people you knew. That's awful.

I don't see how you can see those things and then also think that the suggestion that you should talk to your sons is unreasonable though.

It is men who are doing this. Not all men, not most men, but overwhelmingly men.

So talking to your sons about consent and respect etc hardly seems like a big ask in the circumstances.

If you feel it is patronising, fine, I get how it could be. I'd happily have a patronising conversation with my son if I thought it would help to lower the chances of my daughter being raped (or my son being raped) though.


I don't want men to feel like they are the enemy. Some of my best friends are men ;-) But misogyny is on the rise. Online treatment of women, particularly young women, is shockingly violent. Men have to play a role in protecting their kids against the Andrew Tates of this world.

I have already spoken with my son about respecting women, of course I have. He has his first girlfriend, the chats about consent, what is appropriate, walking her home etc were wheeled out immediately! But I also believe that this would be the case for the vast majority of male parents out there - wouldn't you? My point is more that I think you are over simplifying the issue, I bet the fathers of most of the males who have done these awful things had those chats as well, but there are other issues at play mentally etc that rendered those chats useless
 
Respect for women and violent/sexual assault/ murder are really separate issues in all fairness.

Personally I don't think a chat from their father will stop someone in the years ahead from carrying out these types of horrendous crimes.

The people who carry out these attacks are fucked in the head, or in some cases pure evil. The reasons for that are vastly more complicated than "men need to do better" imo. An effort to lower the rate of these crimes requires other societal issues to be addressed long term.

You can of course encourage children to be respectful of women and encourage good behaviour in general. That's kind of standard parenting though and a separate issue to what happened that poor girl imo.

Telling men to talk to their sons isn't a bad idea on it's own merits, but in relation to this girl being murdered I don't see the correlation really.
 
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