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Tricolours in town

I think we are moving inexorably towards a United Ireland. I suspect a border poll will fail on first hearing. But will have a chance after that.

I think a majority of unionists would accept a democratic vote of 50% plus 1. I am certain that there is nothing that anyone can do from any party to convince hard line Loyalists of the merits of a United Ireland, or indeed the value of their place within it.

It's weird to me to hear that SF need to do more to work with Unionist Communities. All the rhetoric from SF is that everything is on the table in a new Ireland.

FF and FG are just not ready, and they are not readying you, or anyone for it.

I'm not a cheerleader for SF by the way. I feel I have to add that for some reason.
This is exactly the mistake republicans are making, whether inside or outside SF. The only narrative inside the republican ecosystem is 50+1 and a unionist will have only one vote like a nationalist. That's all fine and dandy (to an extent) within NI, however there won't be just one BP, there will also be one down here in the Republic, and as it currently stands, you're expecting us to joyfully take on a deeply sectarian, economic basket case of shit in return for some magical beans in the long term. Whereas, we have all the interaction we need or want right now, without any of the baggage.

The reason SF should have been working their asses off to make good with unionists, is precisely because of self interest, to make NI worth having, which it most certainly isn't right now, and don't forget economically the likes of Cork etc would be worse off, even if NI was cost neutral. SFNI/Army Council have done nothing to make NI worth having, it's not the job of FF, FG or any Republic of Ireland party to do the work that republicans have been too lazy to do.
 
The only narrative inside the republican ecosystem is 50+1 and a unionist will have only one vote like a nationalist.
There is no alternative to 50+1.

It's enshrined it the GFA. Something you voted for.
It's the only show in town.

Positing democracy as some kind of Republican scheme is laughable.

Unless of course you don't like democracy.
 
Arguments against a united Ireland primarily come from the perspective of Unionists in Northern Ireland, who wish to remain part of the United Kingdom, and from concerns regarding the economic, political, and social changes that would follow reunification.
Here are the main arguments against a united Ireland:
1. Political and Identity Concerns for Unionists
* Loss of British Identity and Heritage: For Unionists, who are predominantly Protestant and have a strong British identity and ancestry, unification would mean losing their status as part of the UK. They argue it would destroy their British identity, which is deeply tied to the Union.
* Minority Status and Decline: Unionists worry about becoming a permanent minority within a larger, predominantly Catholic and nationalist state. They cite the decline of the small Protestant population in the Republic of Ireland since its independence as a point of concern.
* Security and Stability: Some Unionist and other parties argue that a border poll would lead to "months and years of arguing and fighting," potentially destabilising the current peace process and diverting focus from pressing issues like the healthcare service and economy.
* Cultural Changes: Concerns exist over changes to national symbols (flag, anthem), the teaching of history (especially the Troubles), and the status of Northern Ireland's distinct culture and traditions within a new state. Some people oppose any changes to the Republic of Ireland's current laws or constitution to accommodate the North.
2. Economic and Fiscal Challenges
* Cost of Unification (Fiscal Deficit): Northern Ireland currently receives a significant annual subvention (financial support) from the UK government. The Irish state would need to absorb this fiscal deficit. While estimates of the actual inherited deficit vary significantly (some claiming it is much lower than the often-quoted \text{£10}-\text{£14} billion figure), there is a consensus that there would be a substantial initial cost.
* Integration and Public Services: There would be substantial costs involved in integrating and harmonising public services, such as:
* Public Sector Wages and Pensions: Public sector wages in Northern Ireland are, on average, lower than those in the Republic of Ireland, and a united Ireland would likely involve costs for equalising salaries and taking over pensions.
* Healthcare, Education, and Infrastructure: Significant investment would be needed to upgrade and harmonise infrastructure, healthcare, and education systems across the island.
* Overdependence on Public Sector: Northern Ireland's economy is often cited as being over-reliant on the public sector compared to the Republic of Ireland and the rest of the UK. The transition to a new economic model could be disruptive.
3. Practical and Implementation Difficulties
* Complexity of Negotiation and Implementation: The process of unification would require two separate referendums (in the North and the South) and complex negotiations to work out the exact terms, which could be a long and challenging process. Key questions would be whether Northern Ireland would be fully integrated into a unitary Irish state or retain some form of devolved government and institutions.
* Harmonisation of Laws and Regulations: Many laws, regulations, and administrative systems (e.g., taxation, social welfare) would need to be changed in Northern Ireland to match those in the South, which would be a huge administrative and legislative task.
* Disruption to Trade: While unification is often seen as beneficial for all-island trade, some businesses might face disruption in their existing trading relationships with Great Britain.
 
Arguments against a united Ireland primarily come from the perspective of Unionists in Northern Ireland, who wish to remain part of the United Kingdom, and from concerns regarding the economic, political, and social changes that would follow reunification.
Here are the main arguments against a united Ireland:
1. Political and Identity Concerns for Unionists
* Loss of British Identity and Heritage: For Unionists, who are predominantly Protestant and have a strong British identity and ancestry, unification would mean losing their status as part of the UK. They argue it would destroy their British identity, which is deeply tied to the Union.
* Minority Status and Decline: Unionists worry about becoming a permanent minority within a larger, predominantly Catholic and nationalist state. They cite the decline of the small Protestant population in the Republic of Ireland since its independence as a point of concern.
* Security and Stability: Some Unionist and other parties argue that a border poll would lead to "months and years of arguing and fighting," potentially destabilising the current peace process and diverting focus from pressing issues like the healthcare service and economy.
* Cultural Changes: Concerns exist over changes to national symbols (flag, anthem), the teaching of history (especially the Troubles), and the status of Northern Ireland's distinct culture and traditions within a new state. Some people oppose any changes to the Republic of Ireland's current laws or constitution to accommodate the North.
2. Economic and Fiscal Challenges
* Cost of Unification (Fiscal Deficit): Northern Ireland currently receives a significant annual subvention (financial support) from the UK government. The Irish state would need to absorb this fiscal deficit. While estimates of the actual inherited deficit vary significantly (some claiming it is much lower than the often-quoted \text{£10}-\text{£14} billion figure), there is a consensus that there would be a substantial initial cost.
* Integration and Public Services: There would be substantial costs involved in integrating and harmonising public services, such as:
* Public Sector Wages and Pensions: Public sector wages in Northern Ireland are, on average, lower than those in the Republic of Ireland, and a united Ireland would likely involve costs for equalising salaries and taking over pensions.
* Healthcare, Education, and Infrastructure: Significant investment would be needed to upgrade and harmonise infrastructure, healthcare, and education systems across the island.
* Overdependence on Public Sector: Northern Ireland's economy is often cited as being over-reliant on the public sector compared to the Republic of Ireland and the rest of the UK. The transition to a new economic model could be disruptive.
3. Practical and Implementation Difficulties
* Complexity of Negotiation and Implementation: The process of unification would require two separate referendums (in the North and the South) and complex negotiations to work out the exact terms, which could be a long and challenging process. Key questions would be whether Northern Ireland would be fully integrated into a unitary Irish state or retain some form of devolved government and institutions.
* Harmonisation of Laws and Regulations: Many laws, regulations, and administrative systems (e.g., taxation, social welfare) would need to be changed in Northern Ireland to match those in the South, which would be a huge administrative and legislative task.
* Disruption to Trade: While unification is often seen as beneficial for all-island trade, some businesses might face disruption in their existing trading relationships with Great Britain.
What country do you live in MoE ?
 
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