Tricolours in town

[leesider]

There's a chance, albeit a weak one at this stage that there will be a BP called in the next decade (there is a pro UI UK Labour support).

My post above was pointing out that republicans have been terribly led, particularly since the GFA, in not attempting to bring the two communities together. Of course you'll never bring everyone, but at least it would give it a chance. Instead they're asking us in the Republic to take on all their shit, with the prospect of 1m prods fearful and angry, and 1m catholics resentful and triumphalist, expecting us to wipe their collective ass.

When I look at the parties out there and who I will potentially vote for in the next election SF of course come to mind because of how badly FFG have managed the housing crisis. However while I have concerns about their economic policies and their past what would really stop me is their push for a UI. As you outlined we are just not ready for it and a lot of work needs to be done with the unionist community before we are ready.

 

[RebelBhoy]

When I look at the parties out there and who I will potentially vote for in the next election SF of course come to mind because of how badly FFG have managed the housing crisis. However while I have concerns about their economic policies and their past what would really stop me is their push for a UI. As you outlined we are just not ready for it and a lot of work needs to be done with the unionist community before we are ready.

Can we explore this a bit more?

Do you mean that you are wary of SF because FFG hasn't prepared you for a United Ireland?

Do you mean FFG need to do more with the Unionist Community? Or do you mean SF? I'm just not clear on that.

 

[bluesball]

Lot of the tricolours appear to be flying at half mast.

 

[leesider]

Can we explore this a bit more?

Do you mean that you are wary of SF because FFG hasn't prepared you for a United Ireland?

Do you mean FFG need to do more with the Unionist Community? Or do you mean SF? I'm just not clear on that.

The ideal is everybody, however if it is SF that are driving this, which it appears to be, then yes SF.

 

[Two Pour Bore]

The thing with the UI, given the economic realities as well as the division and discord it would, of course, sow, is would you really leave those people to The Brits?

Just looking at it from a pure ethical standpoint, well, that place is going loopy. Not only that but since the Blair government NI has pretty much been ignored by the various UK leaders. It's no wonder all the hope that came from the GFA is being thrown down the shitter, with the last of it remaining in the (quite a lot) of young-ish people who just want to get on with their lives. Then you look at Brexit and what that did for those young people, kids up to people my age who just wanted to travel and work in Europe, and see a bit of the world. Then you ask yourself again, "Would you really leave them to The Brits?"

Quick edit: From a personal standpoint I'd much, much prefer to see far more effort, especially from the UK side, on cross-border efforts and plans, but that doesn't seem to be happening from their side. They're not building up the north. They're creating a shithole, again, because they don't care. Just look at what Badenoch said about the north recently. They couldn't give a flying fuck.

 

[RebelBhoy]

The ideal is everybody, however if it is SF that are driving this, which it appears to be, then yes SF.

I think we are moving inexorably towards a United Ireland. I suspect a border poll will fail on first hearing. But will have a chance after that.

I think a majority of unionists would accept a democratic vote of 50% plus 1. I am certain that there is nothing that anyone can do from any party to convince hard line Loyalists of the merits of a United Ireland, or indeed the value of their place within it.

It's weird to me to hear that SF need to do more to work with Unionist Communities. All the rhetoric from SF is that everything is on the table in a new Ireland.

FF and FG are just not ready, and they are not readying you, or anyone for it.

I'm not a cheerleader for SF by the way. I feel I have to add that for some reason.

 

[RebelBhoy]

The thing with the UI, given the economic realities as well as the division and discord it would, of course, sow, is would you really leave those people to The Brits?

Just looking at it from a pure ethical standpoint, well, that place is going loopy. Not only that but since the Blair government NI has pretty much been ignored by the various UK leaders. It's no wonder all the hope that came from the GFA is being thrown down the shitter, with the last of it remaining in the (quite a lot) of young-ish people who just want to get on with their lives. Then you look at Brexit and what that did for those young people, kids up to people my age who just wanted to travel and work in Europe, and see a bit of the world. Then you ask yourself again, "Would you really leave them to The Brits?"

Quick edit: From a personal standpoint I'd much, much prefer to see far more effort, especially from the UK side, on cross-border efforts and plans, but that doesn't seem to be happening from their side. They're not building up the north. They're creating a shithole, again, because they don't care. Just look at what Badenoch said about the north recently. They couldn't give a flying fuck.

unless or until the unionist bloc is needed for something like propping up a government... and that lasted for all of 5 minutes.

 

[Clubber_Langer]

I think we are moving inexorably towards a United Ireland. I suspect a border poll will fail on first hearing. But will have a chance after that.

I think a majority of unionists would accept a democratic vote of 50% plus 1. I am certain that there is nothing that anyone can do from any party to convince hard line Loyalists of the merits of a United Ireland, or indeed the value of their place within it.

It's weird to me to hear that SF need to do more to work with Unionist Communities. All the rhetoric from SF is that everything is on the table in a new Ireland.

FF and FG are just not ready, and they are not readying you, or anyone for it.

I'm not a cheerleader for SF by the way. I feel I have to add that for some reason.

Shut up fool.

 

[outdagap]

When I look at the parties out there and who I will potentially vote for in the next election SF of course come to mind because of how badly FFG have managed the housing crisis. However while I have concerns about their economic policies and their past what would really stop me is their push for a UI. As you outlined we are just not ready for it and a lot of work needs to be done with the unionist community before we are ready.

The housing crisis has its origins in the 08 crash and as is clear from the last Euro and Local elections, the public clearly have moved on from punishing FF. The construction labour capacity problems are not going to be eased for at least 5 or more years, no matter who is running the ship. The problem for this Republic is that SFROI are only a subsidiary of SFNI and do not have our interests at heart. They're only itching to sell us out.

Bear in mind too that if you live outside of Dublin, it is not in your interest to have Belfast in a UI with us in Cork, Limerick, Galway etc.

 

[outdagap]

The thing with the UI, given the economic realities as well as the division and discord it would, of course, sow, is would you really leave those people to The Brits?

Just looking at it from a pure ethical standpoint, well, that place is going loopy. Not only that but since the Blair government NI has pretty much been ignored by the various UK leaders. It's no wonder all the hope that came from the GFA is being thrown down the shitter, with the last of it remaining in the (quite a lot) of young-ish people who just want to get on with their lives. Then you look at Brexit and what that did for those young people, kids up to people my age who just wanted to travel and work in Europe, and see a bit of the world. Then you ask yourself again, "Would you really leave them to The Brits?"

Quick edit: From a personal standpoint I'd much, much prefer to see far more effort, especially from the UK side, on cross-border efforts and plans, but that doesn't seem to be happening from their side. They're not building up the north. They're creating a shithole, again, because they don't care. Just look at what Badenoch said about the north recently. They couldn't give a flying fuck.

Yes, yes I would, they're welcome to each other. And don't forget, we do not have to take them in, we will have our own vote to accept or reject them. We do not need to be railroaded into anything that will hurt us. In fact, rejecting them might turn out to be the best thing because it will force republicans to stop living in lalaland and work to build a just society with unionists. As it stands they are goading them.