The Next Uachtarán na hÉireann

[Yermon]

This is exactly the thing. If you want a united ireland, then that is an acceptance that you want cultural unionism as a major political force in the republic. In the ten years after any reunification chances are you could well have a tanaiste at least who comes from an orange background. If there was a unionist block controlling 20 odd seats in a reconstituted Dail.

A United ireland will be Brits in, rather than Brits out.

Not really an issue with having reconstituted Unionists sharing the government of a 32 county Ireland to be honest.

Think the issue for most people is the sectarianism of the Orange Order which survives even to this day.

The notion that one group of people is better than another group of people merely because they worship the same "divine entity" in a slightly different way is bonkers to be honest. And yet, here in the 21st Century, people still do.

 

[KolaKubes]

Think that's harsh on the lady tbh.

I've no doubt she knew of his politics and membership of the OO when she chose to marry him, and coming from a grandfather who signed the Ulster Covenant someone being a member of the OO wouldn't necessarily raise a red flag for them, but I don't think she's de facto a member of the OO - sympathetic perhaps.

I’m certainly not going to get into defending the effing Orange Order but they do ban Quakers, Mormons etc. I presume you can’t join the Legion of Mary if you’re not Catholic.

 

[TonyCork80]

Not really an issue with having reconstituted Unionists sharing the government of a 32 county Ireland to be honest.

Think the issue for most people is the sectarianism of the Orange Order which survives even to this day.

The notion that one group of people is better than another group of people merely because they worship the same "divine entity" in a slightly different way is bonkers to be honest. And yet, here in the 21st Century, people still do.

So a person married to a former Orangeman could be a minister for defence, foreign affairs, tanaiste or Taoiseach but not President? Am I interpreting you correctly there?

 

[Yermon]

I’m certainly not going to get into defending the effing Orange Order but they do ban Quakers, Mormons etc. I presume you can’t join the Legion of Mary if you’re not Catholic.

See previous for "The notion that one group of people is better than another group of people merely because they worship the same "divine entity" in a slightly different way is bonkers to be honest. And yet, here in the 21st Century, people still do."

Trying to equate the Legion of Mary with the OO is like comparing apples with...er... oranges.

One, afaik, is a crowd given to uber devotion of some deity/holy person. The other is one given to discriminating against RCs not just because they won't allow them be members (as if they wanted to join) but because they advise their members to have absolutely nothing to do with RCs.

If the Legion of Mary said one should avoid ever having any contact with or entering into any relationship with anyone of the Protestant faith, then yes, that would be sectarian.

 

[KolaKubes]

KK, have a word with yourself - there aren't 1M Orange Order members ANYWHERE!

Nobody is suggesting that Heather Noname isn't suitable because of her faith - the issue is with a SECTARIAN organisation the Orange Order and her husbands very strong links to same. He was a member of the Orange Order a decidedly sectarian organisation at a time when sectarian killings were being carried out "up there".

As you say, and as I said previously, it doesn't make HN a member of the OO, but I think it likely that when she married her husband she knew of his links to an overtly sectarian organisation and it didn't seem to phase her.

I’ll bet there’s a million people up there that fail the test of:

*Granda signed the Ulster Covenant (and?!)
*Family member in the Orange Order

I’d be a lot more worried about Connolly choosing to hang around with Russian shills Daly and Wallace in their professional life by any sort of family association.

Jesus, there must be a few people in PUC yesterday wouldn’t pass that test.

 

[PROCNA2018]

This is exactly the thing. If you want a united ireland, then that is an acceptance that you want cultural unionism as a major political force in the republic. In the ten years after any reunification chances are you could well have a tanaiste at least who comes from an orange background. If there was a unionist block controlling 20 odd seats in a reconstituted Dail.

A United ireland will be Brits in, rather than Brits out.

I don't know lads - it isn't her unionism that is an issue, whether she considers herself a unionist or not.
There is an argument to be made that someone who has ties to the unionist community being President of Ireland might be a good thing for what is about to come.

But she isn't going to be the President because she is a Presbyterian or a unionist and she isn't going to be the President for Fine Gaelers. She has to be the president for all of the Irish people.

What about her political career suggests she thinks outside her own hinterland - as a TD or Minister?
What about her telling people to fuck off and leave her alone is Presidential?
What about being willing to learn Irish if elected, as opposed to because she might like to or for the value of learning it in and of itself, is Presidential?
What about her retirement from political life because she had had enough?

The reality is in a straight fight between Humphreys and Connolly, it is government v non-government. Humphreys the government candidate, Connolly the everyone but FF/FG/Rurals candidate.

That is a stark choice given the importance of the position.

Budget will play a part here too - if the people feel like giving the government a kicking after the largesse or not of the Budget.........might get interesting.

Billy Kelleher - "we need to assess the process and how it went so horribly wrong...there was no open process....it all seemed to be pre-ordained.....this has been a very severe miscalculation"

 

[jams]

This is exactly the thing. If you want a united ireland, then that is an acceptance that you want cultural unionism as a major political force in the republic. In the ten years after any reunification chances are you could well have a tanaiste at least who comes from an orange background. If there was a unionist block controlling 20 odd seats in a reconstituted Dail.

A United ireland will be Brits in, rather than Brits out.

I'm trying to remember where I saw this first - but it's fairly recent, and sums things up nicely.

 

[KolaKubes]

See previous for "The notion that one group of people is better than another group of people merely because they worship the same "divine entity" in a slightly different way is bonkers to be honest. And yet, here in the 21st Century, people still do."

Trying to equate the Legion of Mary with the OO is like comparing apples with...er... oranges.

One, afaik, is a crowd given to uber devotion of some deity/holy person. The other is one given to discriminating against RCs not just because they won't allow them be members (as if they wanted to join) but because they advise their members to have absolutely nothing to do with RCs.

If the Legion of Mary said one should avoid ever having any contact with or entering into any relationship with anyone of the Protestant faith, then yes, that would be sectarian.

Ne temere?
Even current requirement if getting married in a Catholic Church that the children be raised Catholic? Despite Catholic clergy being involved in registering of legal marriages.

Religious organisations of all kinds can be sectarian. We used march down the street in the hill when it was the main Cork Dublin road for Corpus Christi like. I’m sure the local Protestant families loved it.

 

[TonyCork80]

I don't know lads - it isn't her unionism that is an issue, whether she considers herself a unionist or not.
There is an argument to be made that someone who has ties to the unionist community being President of Ireland might be a good thing for what is about to come.

But she isn't going to be the President because she is a Presbyterian or a unionist and she isn't going to be the President for Fine Gaelers. She has to be the president for all of the Irish people.

What about her political career suggests she thinks outside her own hinterland - as a TD or Minister?
What about her telling people to fuck off and leave her alone is Presidential?
What about being willing to learn Irish if elected, as opposed to because she might like to or for the value of learning it in and of itself, is Presidential?
What about her retirement from political life because she had had enough?

The reality is in a straight fight between Humphreys and Connolly, it is government v non-government. Humphreys the government candidate, Connolly the everyone but FF/FG/Rurals candidate.

That is a stark choice given the importance of the position.

Budget will play a part here too - if the people feel like giving the government a kicking after the largesse or not of the Budget.........might get interesting.

Billy Kelleher - "we need to assess the process and how it went so horribly wrong...there was no open process....it all seemed to be pre-ordained.....this has been a very severe miscalculation"

That's all totally valid. For me there are a great many reasons not to vote for her but her husband's affiliations shouldn't be one of them.

I had planned on voting for Gavin but no idea what to do now. If I was picking a TD I'd definitely pick Connolly, but I'm not picking a TD. She has an operatic ego and wouldn't be able to resist venting it and wouldn't have the cuteness of Higgins to pick and choose her moments. On the other hand I can't think of a single reason to vote for Humphreys other than to oppose Connolly and Connolly doesn't seem that bad.

I've no idea who I'll vote for. Genuinely.

 

[Clubber_Langer]

I wonder if HH and CC could agree to a job share?seems to work well enough in leinster house.