The Kerry Babies Case

[dennisfallen]

Age of consent was 16 at the time. If she is in her 50s now then she may or may not have been under the age of consent in 1984.

If she was then it's statutory rape, which is an offence, but I am not sure that you can infer that statutory rape automatically means trauma.

Thank you.
It's the birth is where the trauma is related to.

 

[SoundMan]

DPP still needs evidence connecting the parents to the murder in order to get a conviction.

Needs evidence connecting the parents to the murder in order to get a conviction for murder. No need to go for that from the start.


A conviction for perverting the course of justice is much more likely to stick given what is known at this stage. One suspects that any jury would see that one/both involved would've known about the Kerry Baby case at the time and the Garda investigation and had an obligation to come forward.

On threatened with being sent down for a couple of years for perverting the course of justice it might be easier to get one/both to try get a deal and come clean on what they know of the circumstances of Baby John's death versus what they might be sentenced with if found guilty of it.

 

[Matlock]

Needs evidence connecting the parents to the murder in order to get a conviction for murder. No need to go for that from the start.


A conviction for perverting the course of justice is much more likely to stick given what is known at this stage. One suspects that any jury would see that one/both involved would've known about the Kerry Baby case at the time and the Garda investigation and had an obligation to come forward.

On threatened with being sent down for a couple of years for perverting the course of justice it might be easier to get one/both to try get a deal and come clean on what they know of the circumstances of Baby John's death versus what they might be sentenced with if found guilty of it.

They would have to be able to prove that they knew at the time that baby John was their baby.

I think the guards will try and charge with something like failure to report or perverting the course of justice, but I can see it as being far from a slam dunk.

 

[SoundMan]

They would have to be able to prove that they knew at the time that baby John was their baby.

I think the guards will try and charge with something like failure to report or perverting the course of justice, but I can see it as being far from a slam dunk.

I think any jury comprising sentient adults would have a very hard job believing that even a young mother and/or the father of their child wouldn't have known about Baby John being found on a nearby beach. Given that their own baby had gone it really shouldn't have been any leap to imagine that Baby John could possibly have been theirs, and if nothing else, exclude themselves from enquiries.

I think there's no reasonable doubt that one and/or the other knew that Baby John was in all likelihood their baby.

 

[Matlock]

I think any jury comprising sentient adults would have a very hard job believing that even a young mother and/or the father of their child wouldn't have known about Baby John being found on a nearby beach. Given that their own baby had gone it really shouldn't have been any leap to imagine that Baby John could possibly have been theirs, and if nothing else, exclude themselves from enquiries.

I think there's no reasonable doubt that one and/or the other knew that Baby John was in all likelihood their baby.

It isn't about what they (or you) believe though, it is about what can be proven.

 

[RebelBOK]

It isn't about what they (or you) believe though, it is about what can be proven.

Aren't juries verdicts ultimately just based on what they believe though?

Proof isn't always black and white or straightforward.
Are people not often convicted on circumstancial evidence?
Or is that more of an American phenomenon?
Genuine questions btw.
I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the law and court cases etc.. (which I guess in one way is something to be glad of).

 

[SoundMan]

It isn't about what they (or you) believe though, it is about what can be proven.

It is about what can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. And that's the point I'm making.

 

[dennisfallen]

It is about what can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. And that's the point I'm making.

12 Angry men.

 

[RebelBOK]

12 Angry men.

Give me 12 angry men over one scornful woman any day of the week.

 

[dennisfallen]

Give me 12 angry men over one scornful woman any day of the week.

Ghey.