The Kerry Babies Case

[Matlock]

To be honest my original post might have been badly written..

But if at all possible I would be appreciative if you put me on ignore as I think we just rub each other up the wrong way. I’ll do the same with you

I don't think you rub me up the wrong way at all tbh, but if you don't want me to respond to you that's fine.

I wouldn't put you on ignore as I find some of your posts interesting.

 

[doppellanger]

Yes, her being underage constituted a crime, but what public good would have been served by charging her boyfriend with statutory rape here?

There was no evidence of rape, and without any evidence or a complaint from the victim, it would be hard to see how rape could be investigated.

Likewise with child abuse. Where would the evidence for an investigation come from?

How do you know the boyfriend was the father?

You seem to be very sure that there was nothing to investigate.

 

[Matlock]

How do you know the boyfriend was the father?

You seem to be very sure that there was nothing to investigate.

You seem to be coming at this from an angle that it should be assumed that a crime was committed unless there is proof to the contrary.

Why do you think that rape should have been investigated here? Should we assume that all teen pregnancies are the result of rape? Or just all pregnancies that result in maternal and infant death?

I'm not trying to have a row with you, I just don't get where you're coming from.

Surely the awful thing in this case is that a young pregnant woman was utterly let down and abandoned by her family, community, school and church.

 

[doppellanger]

You seem to be coming at this from an angle that it should be assumed that a crime was committed unless there is proof to the contrary.

Why do you think that rape should have been investigated here? Should we assume that all teen pregnancies are the result of rape? Or just all pregnancies that result in maternal and infant death?

I'm not trying to have a row with you, I just don't get where you're coming from.

Surely the awful thing in this case is that a young pregnant woman was utterly let down and abandoned by her family, community, school and church.

The instinct at the time was to close ranks and keep schtum. The Kerry Babies issue shows that the Gardaí investigation was ham-fisted at best and malicious at worst. The tribunal afterward was a classic case of the judge whitewashing the Gardaí at the expense of Joanna Hayes and the Hayes family. Basically a cover-up.

The boyfriend came out to say he had had sex with Ann Lovett from when she was 14, but there have been no DNA tests done since to say for sure whether he was the father or not, and it's not clear why the bishop would be swearing him to silence. Maybe he just wanted to protect the family who were good parishioners, maybe that was standard practice at the time, I don't know and don't claim to know.

Even "being let down by family, community and church" doesn't ring true to me. The alternative to giving birth in the grotto was probably the Magdalene Laundry; and it wasn't just one girl who was "let down" in this way as you delicately put it, it was hundreds or thousands.

So there seems to be a lot we don't know, and I don't know how you can say "It was investigated." with any degree of confidence, seeing as how most people in Granard maintained an omerta, the instinctive tendency at the time to cover up, and no Garda, Health Board or Dept of Education report was ever published. And if there was a Garda investigation, what makes you think it was any better than the Kerry Babies investigation?

 

[Lee Bushwacker]

I've thought for a long time that Anne Lovett's dad was the child's father. It would account for the complete hush up over the affair imo.

 

[The Banker]

I've thought for a long time that Anne Lovett's dad was the child's father. It would account for the complete hush up over the affair imo.

That definitely was not the case.

 

[Matlock]

The instinct at the time was to close ranks and keep schtum. The Kerry Babies issue shows that the Gardaí investigation was ham-fisted at best and malicious at worst. The tribunal afterward was a classic case of the judge whitewashing the Gardaí at the expense of Joanna Hayes and the Hayes family. Basically a cover-up.

The boyfriend came out to say he had had sex with Ann Lovett from when she was 14, but there have been no DNA tests done since to say for sure whether he was the father or not, and it's not clear why the bishop would be swearing him to silence. Maybe he just wanted to protect the family who were good parishioners, maybe that was standard practice at the time, I don't know and don't claim to know.

Even "being let down by family, community and church" doesn't ring true to me. The alternative to giving birth in the grotto was probably the Magdalene Laundry; and it wasn't just one girl who was "let down" in this way as you delicately put it, it was hundreds or thousands.

So there seems to be a lot we don't know, and I don't know how you can say "It was investigated." with any degree of confidence, seeing as how most people in Granard maintained an omerta, the instinctive tendency at the time to cover up, and no Garda, Health Board or Dept of Education report was ever published. And if there was a Garda investigation, what makes you think it was any better than the Kerry Babies investigation?

Again, what would the guards be investigating? Ann Lovett died of natural causes, as did her baby. There is no evidence of rape, or child abuse, and even if such a thing was rumoured , how would the guards investigate it in the absence of a victim?

Something bring wrong on a societal level doesn't make it a criminal offence.

 

[Matlock]

I've thought for a long time that Anne Lovett's dad was the child's father. It would account for the complete hush up over the affair imo.

How would that account for a hush up? Unless he was a very powerful person in the community or church, which i don't think was the case.

Also, what hush up? The reason this case is remembered is that it brought forth a huge public response.

 

[doppellanger]

Again, what would the guards be investigating? Ann Lovett died of natural causes, as did her baby. There is no evidence of rape, or child abuse, and even if such a thing was rumoured , how would the guards investigate it in the absence of a victim?

Something bring wrong on a societal level doesn't make it a criminal offence.

The boyfriend in his interview mentioned that her thighs were bruised and scraped at one point, would that not count as evidence of possible rape or child abuse?

 

[Matlock]

The boyfriend in his interview mentioned that her thighs were bruised and scraped at one point, would that not count as evidence of possible rape or child abuse?

It's heresy evidence at best. She didn't tell him that she was assaulted and bruised thighs are not definitive evidence of assault.

More fundamentally, though, how do you investigate a rape when you have no rape victim?