The County Board Complaints Thread

[Dinger]

Good discussion here from all.

2 things.
A few comments on large clubs and lack of retention. I would guess, that those clubs are counting on the high level of attrition, as they wouldn't be able to sustain the numbers that could potentially come through. Douglas were renting Ballinure pitch, Redmonds pitch, Douglas Comm pitch, Musgrave Park, Pairc ui Chaoimh, that I'm aware of, in addition to their own grounds in the last few years just for places for their teams to train and play. . Maybe there are other pitches as well that they used.
From the numbers that start at U7 with them (easily 50 regulars with possibly another 20-30 transient) it is impossible for them to retain them all and have a place for them, and I think they know it, and don't really care. Get the cream, and let the rest away. They won't ever admit it, but they need to lose lots of players along the way, but just not the good ones. And I mentioned douglas, add in Midleton, Carrigaline, Sars, Ballincollig into that list as well.
They could have 2 or 3 teams at U14 of actual 14 year olds, and 4 years later have only 2 minor teams joined with the group below. Douglas even played U16s in U18 recently. They don't care about losing the weaker players.
Smaller clubs need to retain players too field teams, but also to sustain the club into the future as adult players, coaches, committee members, sponsors etc. They will have a role for everybody, the large clubs don't ever need to worry about the future, everything is short term because of the luxury of numbers.

Secondly, I think the anti amalgamation push isn't coming from anyone in particular and has a lot of very valid points. But think of this from the CEOs club, Kilmeen. I don't think they are amalgamated, maybe I'm wrong.
In the past, they would have been grouped with Argideen, Barryroe, Oliver Plunketts, Ballinascarthy, Mathunas, Marys etc, but now all those clubs are amalgamated, and playing at higher levels, the likes of Kilmeen have less and less opponents within close proximity. Same in East cork with Dungourney, Castlemartyr, Russell Rovers, Cloyne etc. Amalgamating makes them too good for the Fr O'Neills, St Catherine's etc, who probably have similar numbers to each individual entity but as are not at the level consistently of the amalgamations.

In the past, there was probably 3 tiers in underage Hurling and football.
A grade which made up 20% of teams. They were generally the larger clubs with more players on the age.
Then you had B & C grade in the divisions which was equally enough spread at approx 40% each.

What we now have is still 3 tiers but the numbers have skewed.
10% tier 1
70% tier 2
20% tier 3

The tier 3 clubs are getting squeezed with less local teams to play, and they will inevitably start to lose kids and then to get natural balance, they will amalgamate with another tier 3 club and move to tier 2.

Big clubs don't fear amalgamated teams, it is the small clubs staying on their own that fear them, and rightfully so.

There is a natural hierarchy to the club game. We will always have senior, intermediate and junior clubs, and that's ok. And we should always have A, B and C grade teams at underage. We can't have everybody in the B, with a small few outliers either side.

That's a good point about the stand alone small clubs having fewer and fewer comparable teams to play against as a result of amalgamations.

 

[Field1]

Good discussion here from all.

2 things.
A few comments on large clubs and lack of retention. I would guess, that those clubs are counting on the high level of attrition, as they wouldn't be able to sustain the numbers that could potentially come through. Douglas were renting Ballinure pitch, Redmonds pitch, Douglas Comm pitch, Musgrave Park, Pairc ui Chaoimh, that I'm aware of, in addition to their own grounds in the last few years just for places for their teams to train and play. . Maybe there are other pitches as well that they used.
From the numbers that start at U7 with them (easily 50 regulars with possibly another 20-30 transient) it is impossible for them to retain them all and have a place for them, and I think they know it, and don't really care. Get the cream, and let the rest away. They won't ever admit it, but they need to lose lots of players along the way, but just not the good ones. And I mentioned douglas, add in Midleton, Carrigaline, Sars, Ballincollig into that list as well.
They could have 2 or 3 teams at U14 of actual 14 year olds, and 4 years later have only 2 minor teams joined with the group below. Douglas even played U16s in U18 recently. They don't care about losing the weaker players.
Smaller clubs need to retain players too field teams, but also to sustain the club into the future as adult players, coaches, committee members, sponsors etc. They will have a role for everybody, the large clubs don't ever need to worry about the future, everything is short term because of the luxury of numbers.

Secondly, I think the anti amalgamation push isn't coming from anyone in particular and has a lot of very valid points. But think of this from the CEOs club, Kilmeen. I don't think they are amalgamated, maybe I'm wrong.
In the past, they would have been grouped with Argideen, Barryroe, Oliver Plunketts, Ballinascarthy, Mathunas, Marys etc, but now all those clubs are amalgamated, and playing at higher levels, the likes of Kilmeen have less and less opponents within close proximity. Same in East cork with Dungourney, Castlemartyr, Russell Rovers, Cloyne etc. Amalgamating makes them too good for the Fr O'Neills, St Catherine's etc, who probably have similar numbers to each individual entity but as are not at the level consistently of the amalgamations.

In the past, there was probably 3 tiers in underage Hurling and football.
A grade which made up 20% of teams. They were generally the larger clubs with more players on the age.
Then you had B & C grade in the divisions which was equally enough spread at approx 40% each.

What we now have is still 3 tiers but the numbers have skewed.
10% tier 1
70% tier 2
20% tier 3

The tier 3 clubs are getting squeezed with less local teams to play, and they will inevitably start to lose kids and then to get natural balance, they will amalgamate with another tier 3 club and move to tier 2.

Big clubs don't fear amalgamated teams, it is the small clubs staying on their own that fear them, and rightfully so.

There is a natural hierarchy to the club game. We will always have senior, intermediate and junior clubs, and that's ok. And we should always have A, B and C grade teams at underage. We can't have everybody in the B, with a small few outliers either side.

That's an excellent post.

 

[Killyoursons]

Good discussion here from all.

2 things.
A few comments on large clubs and lack of retention. I would guess, that those clubs are counting on the high level of attrition, as they wouldn't be able to sustain the numbers that could potentially come through. Douglas were renting Ballinure pitch, Redmonds pitch, Douglas Comm pitch, Musgrave Park, Pairc ui Chaoimh, that I'm aware of, in addition to their own grounds in the last few years just for places for their teams to train and play. . Maybe there are other pitches as well that they used.
From the numbers that start at U7 with them (easily 50 regulars with possibly another 20-30 transient) it is impossible for them to retain them all and have a place for them, and I think they know it, and don't really care. Get the cream, and let the rest away. They won't ever admit it, but they need to lose lots of players along the way, but just not the good ones. And I mentioned douglas, add in Midleton, Carrigaline, Sars, Ballincollig into that list as well.
They could have 2 or 3 teams at U14 of actual 14 year olds, and 4 years later have only 2 minor teams joined with the group below. Douglas even played U16s in U18 recently. They don't care about losing the weaker players.
Smaller clubs need to retain players too field teams, but also to sustain the club into the future as adult players, coaches, committee members, sponsors etc. They will have a role for everybody, the large clubs don't ever need to worry about the future, everything is short term because of the luxury of numbers.

Secondly, I think the anti amalgamation push isn't coming from anyone in particular and has a lot of very valid points. But think of this from the CEOs club, Kilmeen. I don't think they are amalgamated, maybe I'm wrong.
In the past, they would have been grouped with Argideen, Barryroe, Oliver Plunketts, Ballinascarthy, Mathunas, Marys etc, but now all those clubs are amalgamated, and playing at higher levels, the likes of Kilmeen have less and less opponents within close proximity. Same in East cork with Dungourney, Castlemartyr, Russell Rovers, Cloyne etc. Amalgamating makes them too good for the Fr O'Neills, St Catherine's etc, who probably have similar numbers to each individual entity but as are not at the level consistently of the amalgamations.

In the past, there was probably 3 tiers in underage Hurling and football.
A grade which made up 20% of teams. They were generally the larger clubs with more players on the age.
Then you had B & C grade in the divisions which was equally enough spread at approx 40% each.

What we now have is still 3 tiers but the numbers have skewed.
10% tier 1
70% tier 2
20% tier 3

The tier 3 clubs are getting squeezed with less local teams to play, and they will inevitably start to lose kids and then to get natural balance, they will amalgamate with another tier 3 club and move to tier 2.

Big clubs don't fear amalgamated teams, it is the small clubs staying on their own that fear them, and rightfully so.

There is a natural hierarchy to the club game. We will always have senior, intermediate and junior clubs, and that's ok. And we should always have A, B and C grade teams at underage. We can't have everybody in the B, with a small few outliers either side.

V interesting post. I'm not sure that the bigger clubs don't care about attrition, but you are certainly right about the logistical pressure that having so many players creates. What I would emphasise is that those clubs have little room for manoeuvre. Putting in new pitches will be extremely difficult, especially with the other short-term running costs such as hiring pitches. It's easy to say that extra clubs should be carved out in some of these catchment areas, but in many cases that's going to raise exactly the same issues wrt land, pitches, etc.

Maybe the only alternative is to consider redrawing the boundaries of some of these clubs with their neighbours, and revisit it every decade or so. That would obviously be artificial and top-down and so in no way ideal, but at least it would give more young players a chance to play adult hurling and football, because you'd have fewer of them trying to get on, say, one of Douglas's two hurling teams.

 

[red&blue]

Good discussion here from all.

fantastic post and very fair and balanced

2 things.
A few comments on large clubs and lack of retention. I would guess, that those clubs are counting on the high level of attrition, as they wouldn't be able to sustain the numbers that could potentially come through. Douglas were renting Ballinure pitch, Redmonds pitch, Douglas Comm pitch, Musgrave Park, Pairc ui Chaoimh, that I'm aware of, in addition to their own grounds in the last few years just for places for their teams to train and play. . Maybe there are other pitches as well that they used.
From the numbers that start at U7 with them (easily 50 regulars with possibly another 20-30 transient) it is impossible for them to retain them all and have a place for them, and I think they know it, and don't really care. Get the cream, and let the rest away. They won't ever admit it, but they need to lose lots of players along the way, but just not the good ones. And I mentioned douglas, add in Midleton, Carrigaline, Sars, Ballincollig into that list as well.
They could have 2 or 3 teams at U14 of actual 14 year olds, and 4 years later have only 2 minor teams joined with the group below. Douglas even played U16s in U18 recently. They don't care about losing the weaker players.

i dont think its right picking out Douglas because to be fair most of the big clubs are doing exactly the same thing and it is a problem i dont think the GAA as a whole have grasped

Smaller clubs need to retain players too field teams, but also to sustain the club into the future as adult players, coaches, committee members, sponsors etc. They will have a role for everybody, the large clubs don't ever need to worry about the future, everything is short term because of the luxury of numbers.

i am discussing all this in private on here with someone who is from a smaller club but who has very similar opinions to my own, ie retaining players and i believe there are ways to tackle it although they might be a bit unpalatable for those bigger clubs

Secondly, I think the anti amalgamation push isn't coming from anyone in particular and has a lot of very valid points. But think of this from the CEOs club, Kilmeen. I don't think they are amalgamated, maybe I'm wrong.
In the past, they would have been grouped with Argideen, Barryroe, Oliver Plunketts, Ballinascarthy, Mathunas, Marys etc, but now all those clubs are amalgamated, and playing at higher levels, the likes of Kilmeen have less and less opponents within close proximity. Same in East cork with Dungourney, Castlemartyr, Russell Rovers, Cloyne etc. Amalgamating makes them too good for the Fr O'Neills, St Catherine's etc, who probably have similar numbers to each individual entity but as are not at the level consistently of the amalgamations.

spot on and thats very unfair on the smaller clubs who are trying to do the right thing and go it alone when the easier way would be to amalgamate with another club

In the past, there was probably 3 tiers in underage Hurling and football.
A grade which made up 20% of teams. They were generally the larger clubs with more players on the age.
Then you had B & C grade in the divisions which was equally enough spread at approx 40% each.

A grade in the past was alot less than 20% of the teams, much more like 10%

What we now have is still 3 tiers but the numbers have skewed.
10% tier 1
70% tier 2
20% tier 3

as you said its tier 3 clubs that are now being left behind because of the amalgamated teams that are now at tier 2. However id be interested in the views of medium sized clubs in tier 2 who have to come up against these amalgamations

The tier 3 clubs are getting squeezed with less local teams to play, and they will inevitably start to lose kids and then to get natural balance, they will amalgamate with another tier 3 club and move to tier 2.

playing your local rivals on a regular basis is vital in sport, at any level, clubs push themselves to be better when they play their next door neighbours which helps raise all boats. it also means alot less travel too obviously

Big clubs don't fear amalgamated teams, it is the small clubs staying on their own that fear them, and rightfully so.

someone suggested the big clubs were behind this push to limit amalgamations, i had a good chuckle when i read it, big clubs dont fear anyone, thats just the nature of the beast

But your point on the small clubs fearing amalgamations is something i didnt think of and should be taken on board by everyone

There is a natural hierarchy to the club game. We will always have senior, intermediate and junior clubs, and that's ok. And we should always have A, B and C grade teams at underage. We can't have everybody in the B, with a small few outliers either side.

clubs can make senior with a small pick of players, look at all what Newtown achieved, look at newcestown or kanturk right now, two great dual clubs. And if they dont so what, clubs must be about more than just playing at the highest level

 

[Henrys Fonda]

Saw the draw for the U15 Premier 1 hurling championship over the weekend, Seandun and Duhallow have teams in it.

 

[Patman360]

Saw the draw for the U15 Premier 1 hurling championship over the weekend, Seandun and Duhallow have teams in it.

Duhallow have been playing in the U15 league this year alright, made the quarters I think, didn’t realise Seandun had a team til I saw the draws though.

 

[KolaKubes]

fantastic post and very fair and balanced

i dont think its right picking out Douglas because to be fair most of the big clubs are doing exactly the same thing and it is a problem i dont think the GAA as a whole have grasped


i am discussing all this in private on here with someone who is from a smaller club but who has very similar opinions to my own, ie retaining players and i believe there are ways to tackle it although they might be a bit unpalatable for those bigger clubs

spot on and thats very unfair on the smaller clubs who are trying to do the right thing and go it alone when the easier way would be to amalgamate with another club

A grade in the past was alot less than 20% of the teams, much more like 10%

as you said its tier 3 clubs that are now being left behind because of the amalgamated teams that are now at tier 2. However id be interested in the views of medium sized clubs in tier 2 who have to come up against these amalgamations

playing your local rivals on a regular basis is vital in sport, at any level, clubs push themselves to be better when they play their next door neighbours which helps raise all boats. it also means alot less travel too obviously

someone suggested the big clubs were behind this push to limit amalgamations, i had a good chuckle when i read it, big clubs dont fear anyone, thats just the nature of the beast

But your point on the small clubs fearing amalgamations is something i didnt think of and should be taken on board by everyone

clubs can make senior with a small pick of players, look at all what Newtown achieved, look at newcestown or kanturk right now, two great dual clubs. And if they dont so what, clubs must be about more than just playing at the highest level

Not to be controversial but we should stop this giving over every other weekend to football.

It’s got a status similar to Scór na bPáistí in most civilised parts of the county.

The B team kids should be directed towards football and the C team kids towards Cork Con.

 

[jimmym]

Found a book in my parents house a history of Cork gaa up to 1986, cork have only had 8 secretaries since 1900, these lads have some longevity

 

[red&blue]

Not to be controversial but we should stop this giving over every other weekend to football.

It’s got a status similar to Scór na bPáistí in most civilised parts of the county.

The B team kids should be directed towards football and the C team kids towards Cork Con.

its no wonder the hill are where they are if thats yer attitude

 

[red&blue]

wow! look what i just stumbled across online

very informative! I wonder are the county board using this?

Boys in Mainstream NSs in Co. Cork - Google My Maps

Boys in Mainstream NSs in Co. Cork

tiny.cc